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Old 08-25-2012, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Exeter, NH
5,200 posts, read 4,204,038 times
Reputation: 5453

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
If a child has been here for 17 of their 18 years of life, they are as much an American as my son is.

And no one is doing the jobs of the "undocumented" or "illegals", so I say let them stay here. Hell, we need to open the border up more.

Free country and all, we should accept everyone. It'll drive down labor costs, increase production in factories, and make us competitive with China because we'll have cheaper labor.
First, that child required a bi-lingual teacher in every subject, and LOTs of taxpayer money to make up for low immigrant wages.

Next, "scab" workers always worked for nothing, and resulted in the loss of a living wage for all Americans. We'd have plenty of Americans to work if an American could survive on such pay.

Last, if we accept everyone, all we do is make the labor pool even more bloated (and underpaid) than it is now. Increase production and make us comparative with China? Sure, for 10 cents a day--while American cost of living remains insanely high. And also, we not only have the American taxpayer PAY all those social and educational costs for law-ignoring immigrants, but we equalize pay with a world that we formerly headed the wealth of. Hardly a great idea for our children.

In short, we can't afford 300 million Americans paying for the bloated social safety nets of over 3 billion humans that haven't contributed to a system based on taxing decent wage-earners.

 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,307,565 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
First, that child required a bi-lingual teacher in every subject, and LOTs of taxpayer money to make up for low immigrant wages.

Next, "scab" workers always worked for nothing, and resulted in the loss of a living wage for all Americans. We'd have plenty of Americans to work if an American could survive on such pay.

Last, if we accept everyone, all we do is make the labor pool even more bloated (and underpaid) than it is now. Increase production and make us comparative with China? Sure, for 10 cents a day--while American cost of living remains insanely high. And also, we not only have the American taxpayer PAY all those social and educational costs for law-ignoring immigrants, but we equalize pay with a world that we formerly headed the wealth of. Hardly a great idea for our children.

In short, we can't afford 300 million Americans paying for the bloated social safety nets of over 3 billion humans that haven't contributed to a system based on taxing decent wage-earners.

"Scab" workers has been used by Unions for decades, and Republicans don't like unions. Now suddenly the same logic of "free market" is being applied to illegal immigration, and you're against scabs now?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Nothing makes me happier then to use small government, free market ideals, to drive Republicans crazy.

Shows their true colors, that they aren't for small government at all, just like government big where they like it. Republicans are no better then democrats.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 27,028,059 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
You are ignoring what they're being paid. A job that forces others to subsidize you isn't much of a job at all. We already have millions of such people here with garbage jobs. We don't need to add anymore so you can pretend to save money and a rich man can exploit people.



If we make life difficult for them they will leave. Don't hand them interpreters, fine their employers heavily, refuse their kids schooling unless they pay for it, don't give them American driver's licenses, confiscate their wages and hand any bills they run up to Mexico and they will leave voluntarily.
I can't rep you now but have bolded the words you said that are so true. I especially want to see the part of the 1986 Amnesty Law enforced that called for fines of $10,000 per head for all of them employed. Let the employers who use the goodies from the government to hire illegals so cheap. That would end the whole game but it has never been done.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 27,028,059 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Are they here legally?

No?

Then they are illegal.

As soon as people realize this we'll all be in better shape:
They are illegals and that means they broke a law or laws of the US but they don't like to be called illegal. I guess they have been to some liberal rallies of some kind. Those kids in the OP were nearly all college students and that tells me a whole lot.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:21 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 6,582,043 times
Reputation: 3091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I'm saying let all of them become citizens on a trial basis, tax them, make sure they aren't breaking the law, and they'll increase production, lower wage costs, and everyone will be the better for it.

Thats a "Free market" solution.

Illegal immigrants aren't going anywhere, so we might as well use them in the best way possible, by allowing them to become real full citizens, and tax them like everyone else is.
Sure, many are in-fact leaving the US because for many the gravy train has stopped. Many were just sending money out of the US anyway, making as much cheap money as possible before heading back home. As far as delegating low pay work to a young adult who came to this country illegally when a baby is not the right thing to do either. They shouldn't be pigeon holed because of illegal actions their parents committed but instead be given priority when given a green card to re-enter or even stay in the US. It should be a case by case issue not a blanket amnesty. These young adults are assimilated, or you would hope they are. There is that possibility of abuse by young illegals in that they came to the US at 16 and want special treatment at 18 and can't speak a lick of english and some knuckle head bureaucrat falling for it. No thanks, back home you go.

Last edited by jmking; 08-25-2012 at 11:30 AM..
 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,307,565 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
Sure, many are in-fact leaving the US because for many the gravy train has stopped. Many were just sending money out of the US anyway, making as much cheap money as possible before heading back home. As far as delegating low pay work to a young adult who came to this country illegally is not the right thing to do either. They shouldn't be pigeon holed because of illegal actions their parents committed but instead be given priority when given a green card to re-enter or even stay in the US. It should be a case by case issue not a blanket amnesty. These young adults are assimilated, or you would hope they were. There is that possibility of abuse by young illegals in that they came to the US at 16 and want special treatment at 18. No thanks, back home you go.

I didn't say they had to be low pay workers, I just said that they would lower wages, overall.

Difference.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Austin
28,962 posts, read 15,527,638 times
Reputation: 7714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
I agree, we should eliminate or lower the minimum wage.

But we can't be big government on one thing, and not the other. Has to start somewhere.

If you flood the market with new labor sources, wages will have to come down. Thats the problem with the Republican party, they aren't small government, they like government when it suits them.
But you can be small government on everything except protection of individual rights.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 27,028,059 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Did I just enter the twilight zone?
I hate to say this but I believe you have done so.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,881,813 times
Reputation: 27519
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
Sure, many are in-fact leaving the US because for many the gravy train has stopped. Many were just sending money out of the US anyway, making as much cheap money as possible before heading back home. As far as delegating low pay work to a young adult who came to this country illegally is not the right thing to do either. They shouldn't be pigeon holed because of illegal actions their parents committed but instead be given priority when given a green card to re-enter or even stay in the US. It should be a case by case issue not a blanket amnesty. These young adults are assimilated, or you would hope they were. There is that possibility of abuse by young illegals in that they came to the US at 16 and want special treatment at 18. No thanks, back home you go.
And many are also grouping together and living under one roof so they can stay.
It's quite common in Hispanic (and Asian) culture that multi-generations live in the same house.
The sons will marry and stay there while the daughters get married and move into the husband's family home.

Construction was a big employer for many and when that went bust that hurt them financially.

Multiple families living under one roof saves a considerable amount of money.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,924 posts, read 27,028,059 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
What part of "you can't get any kind of federal assistance for x number of years" don't you people understand?

The problem is, immigration isn't going away. So you can either try to ignore reality, that they will keep coming, or you can work within to find a solution that works best for the country.
Why wouldn't the $10,000 fine called for in the Amnesty Act of 1986 work just as well as what you say. I think that few employers would want to pay the fine that was called for. Surely that provision was extra good and we wouldn't have to worry about taxing the hell out of the rich today.
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