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Old 08-27-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,065 posts, read 15,485,226 times
Reputation: 5288

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I was teaching school, when there was some sort of rally for illegal immigrants, all the Hispanic kids left the classroom to join this march, with flags, bull horns, the Mexican flag. It was pretty evident to me that this march was not inclusive. I had some African refugee students in my class, and a few Asian kids, I asked them if they felt like this was an important issue, they said, "no", and that school was more important to them.

Why was this march for illegal aliens completely ethnocentric? I found that interesting. Other students from other cultures may have the same issue in their families, and were excluded from this rally for "illegal immigrants".
What's your point?

You kicked off the conversation saying "don't call you racist" but it sounds like you are justifying being a racist. You're even attempting the racial wedge by bringing up African and Asians.

There sure is a lot of ethnic/race based discussion, for people who are not racists in here!

 
Old 08-27-2012, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,065 posts, read 15,485,226 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Without a doubt, some Americans are racists. That will never change. So, naturally, some opponents of illegal immigration are racists. Likewise, a certain percentage of opponents of abortion, our involvement in the Middle East, high gas prices, you name it, are racists. Yet, I have never heard anyone accuse all opponents of the aforementioned of being a racist simply because "some" opponents are. To even suggest that MOST opponents of illegal immigration are racists is at the very least disingenuous.

If 80% of illegal aliens were Haitian, they would be the main topic of conversation on this forum. And, I would still be here fervently opposing their presence. I certainly would never support a cause based solely on shared ancestry. Wrong is wrong.

I am certain if the majority of illegal aliens were Haitian, none of the so-called "immigrant" advocacy groups would be railing against opponents of illegal immigration. Nor would they accuse opponents of illegal immigration of racism. In fact, race would not even be considered a factor. Rather, they would defend opponents of illegal immigration on the basis of our right as a sovereign nation to enforce our immigration laws. They would also argue that we must tackle the problem in the best interest of our country; in particular, our high unemployment, tanking economy, limited resources, and national security. While many would probably feel compassion, few would believe we have an obligation to allow them to stay. If anything, the same people who vociferously support Hispanic illegal aliens, would suggest we apply pressure on Haiti to curtail the flow of Haitian illegal immigration. Again, for the good of OUR country.

It is the height of hypocrisy for Hispanic advocacy groups, in particular, La Raza, to dare call opponents of illegal immigration racists, given their ethnocentric views. Mach, perhaps you can explain why it is NOT racist to want Hispanics (legal or illegal) to have a right to seek a better life in the US, while requesting a moratorium on immigrants from Africa. Can you? Also, if most illegal aliens were Haitian, can you honestly say you would still be a faithful supporter? Or, is your position on this issue based primarily on shared ethnicity?
Benicar,

I think you greatly misjudge me after these years.

1) Here is my principal on Illegal Immigration in the US:

I believe the United States Corporations sought to bring in people that will work cheaper and harder, those people have arrived in large numbers unimpeded by Government. It doesn't matter what country they are from I believe the US has shown enough fault to ensure the safety and proper handling of these people.

2) I am of mixed ethnicity like most Americans. Living in California and Florida where I have seen first hand the treatment/discrimination of illegals in the US got me into this issue.

Finally, I have noticed that many of the anti-illegals here are also the same who are anti-Hispanic and anti-Legal immigration as well. The same posters (ALL American NYC and ChicagoNut, JDubsMom etc...) post in the same racist threads elsewhere on the forum. It's blantantly obvious where these people stand and take issue on the subject.

Last edited by Mach50; 08-27-2012 at 10:40 AM..
 
Old 08-27-2012, 11:45 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,388,136 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Benicar,

I think you greatly misjudge me after these years.

1) Here is my principal on Illegal Immigration in the US:

I believe the United States Corporations sought to bring in people that will work cheaper and harder, those people have arrived in large numbers unimpeded by Government. It doesn't matter what country they are from I believe the US has shown enough fault to ensure the safety and proper handling of these people.

2) I am of mixed ethnicity like most Americans. Living in California and Florida where I have seen first hand the treatment/discrimination of illegals in the US got me into this issue.

Finally, I have noticed that many of the anti-illegals here are also the same who are anti-Hispanic and anti-Legal immigration as well. The same posters (ALL American NYC and ChicagoNut, JDubsMom etc...) post in the same racist threads elsewhere on the forum. It's blantantly obvious where these people stand and take issue on the subject.
The American people have repeatedly shown they did not want these people here. Not, as many pro-illegals would idiotically assert, because the people are racist. But because the people in question have had a very real detrimental effect on many American communities. Most illegals have little if any education. They don't speak English at all, let alone fluently. They often have children who must be educated at public taxpayer expense. They crowd into smaller housing that puts a strain on local housing stock and the physical infrastructure of this country. They send massive amounts of money home and out of the community.

Worse of all illegals whine discrimination when asked to leave. The only reason most of their supporters support them is because they are hispanic. So the real inexcusable racism is theirs. It's bad enough to come here and do all sorts of awful things to many American towns and cities. To turn around and then accuse Americans of being fundamentally awful people because we want them to cut it out is inexcusable.

It is blatently obvious that Americans and Americans only cannot and should not be held responsible for solving Latin American poverty or providing hispanic foriegn nationals with everything they want in life.

If illegals find this country so lousy they are not glued in place here. They can and should leave. Hearing them screech about how racist Americans are, how we discriminate against them constantly and mistreat them is like listening to an uninvited house guest raid your refrigerator, eat half your food without your permission or any compensation and then complain about the quality of the food.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,065 posts, read 15,485,226 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
The American people have repeatedly shown they did not want these people here. Not, as many pro-illegals would idiotically assert, because the people are racist. But because the people in question have had a very real detrimental effect on many American communities. Most illegals have little if any education. They don't speak English at all, let alone fluently. They often have children who must be educated at public taxpayer expense. They crowd into smaller housing that puts a strain on local housing stock and the physical infrastructure of this country. They send massive amounts of money home and out of the community.

Worse of all illegals whine discrimination when asked to leave. The only reason most of their supporters support them is because they are hispanic. So the real inexcusable racism is theirs. It's bad enough to come here and do all sorts of awful things to many American towns and cities. To turn around and then accuse Americans of being fundamentally awful people because we want them to cut it out is inexcusable.

It is blatently obvious that Americans and Americans only cannot and should not be held responsible for solving Latin American poverty or providing hispanic foriegn nationals with everything they want in life.

If illegals find this country so lousy they are not glued in place here. They can and should leave. Hearing them screech about how racist Americans are, how we discriminate against them constantly and mistreat them is like listening to an uninvited house guest raid your refrigerator, eat half your food without your permission or any compensation and then complain about the quality of the food.
Why quote me when your post had nothing to do with mine? I don't even think you read my post at all.. AHHHH this I-I forum is HORRIBLE!!!
 
Old 08-27-2012, 12:00 PM
 
31,713 posts, read 14,631,102 times
Reputation: 8456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Benicar,

I think you greatly misjudge me after these years.

1) Here is my principal on Illegal Immigration in the US:

I believe the United States Corporations sought to bring in people that will work cheaper and harder, those people have arrived in large numbers unimpeded by Government. It doesn't matter what country they are from I believe the US has shown enough fault to ensure the safety and proper handling of these people.

2) I am of mixed ethnicity like most Americans. Living in California and Florida where I have seen first hand the treatment/discrimination of illegals in the US got me into this issue.

Finally, I have noticed that many of the anti-illegals here are also the same who are anti-Hispanic and anti-Legal immigration as well. The same posters (ALL American NYC and ChicagoNut, JDubsMom etc...) post in the same racist threads elsewhere on the forum. It's blantantly obvious where these people stand and take issue on the subject.
So do you believe because our government has been in collusion with the greedy employers that hire illegal immigrants that us regular Americans should just suck it up and take it and not complain?

I am not sure what you mean that our government has shown fault in the safety and proper handing of illegal immigrants. Perhaps you would like to explain. Please explain also how illegal immigrants are being poorly treated and being discriminated against as if discriminating against those in our country illegally isn't justfied anyway.

Most of the members you refer to (I know one for a fact) are not anti-Hispanic. Is being opposed to illegal immigration being anti-Hispanic? Not in my book it isn't. Define what a racist thread is. Is expecting Hispanics and all other immigrants to come here legally, racist? Is expecting Hispanic citizens to honor the rule of law just like the rest of us, racist? Is expecting Hispanic immigrants/citizens to assimilate to our culture and langauge, racist?
 
Old 08-27-2012, 12:09 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,388,136 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Why quote me when your post had nothing to do with mine? I don't even think you read my post at all.. AHHHH this I-I forum is HORRIBLE!!!
If you can't see why my post had everything to do with yours that's much of the problem. You are whining that illegals are discriminated against. You topped it off by implying that opposition to them is largely based on race rather than the detrimental effect they have on many American communities.

This forum is horrible if you don't understand this issue.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,557,372 times
Reputation: 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Living in California and Florida where I have seen first hand the treatment/discrimination of illegals in the US got me into this issue.

Finally, I have noticed that many of the anti-illegals here are also the same who are anti-Hispanic and anti-Legal immigration as well. The same posters (ALL American NYC and ChicagoNut, JDubsMom etc...) post in the same racist threads elsewhere on the forum. It's blantantly obvious where these people stand and take issue on the subject.
Have you ever seen first hand discrimination that black people, Americans, experience - discrimination that has been going on for years and years? There are all kinds of discrimination towards citizens and legal residents, especially in the work place be it towards, ethnicity, religion, skin color, gender, wages, etc. What's even more unfortunate is that hispanics that are citizens are unfairly experiencing discrimination because of illegal hispanics. It may be a knee-jerk reaction by people, but it is what it is. Because of 9/11 Arab and Pakistani citizens, regardless of their religious beliefs, but especially Muslims, lost their jobs or were ostracized at the work place. Muslims continue to experience discrimination.

There is no question that illegals are taken advantage of by employers who break the laws. But they put themselves in that position. There are probably also employers who won't hire them because they are illegal, and that is not discrimination, that is following the law.

Then you have the flip side where illegals commit crimes and don't experience the same punishment as a citizen would. They are given government benefits at the expense of the taxpayer. Obama has created a protected class, creating laws designed just for them, and exempting illegals to laws that apply to citizens and legal residents.

There are thousands of people who have taken the legal path, work, pay taxes, are law abiding, who waiting for residency and who will actually contribute to society on a higher level that have been pushed to the back of the line so that illegals who broke laws get first shot at residency. If they feel so discriminated against, why do they keep coming? If they feel unwanted, why do they stay?

Please don't pull out the crying towel about how poorly illegals are treated. If you look at the big picture, the government has been very, very good to them, and as long as they government takes care of them so any "discrimination" they experience is merely a minor inconvenience.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 01:31 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,307,591 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Exactly! Likewise, while some white Americans oppose Obama due to racism, MOST oppose him due to his policies. I am sooooooo sick of racism being manufactured to support agendas.
I have got to agree with you as usual Benicar. I am so sick of the race card, racism, always at the forefront of those who oppose Obama.

Oh really, that is why he was elected because of racism, please! Has to do with attitude, being trustworthy, having the welfare of all Americans first before all others, a good sport when someone disagrees with his policies, not someone who goes on the attack. That is so childish.

There are many reasons, and race is most definitely not one of them.

The only legimitate excuse they seem to come up with his one due to race. Please come up with something more original.


How bout most Americans if being true, are not better off then 4 yrs ago, most are in the tank, have lost a job, lost a home, and a economy, tanking for way too long now. How bout the promise of Hope n' Change was garbage.

Remember his words wisely, he used empty words on us once before, really think this President has changed. I don't care about words, i care about a economy that is growing and booming. Not continuing going under, thanks Obama.

And if he is elected again, and the economy goes under. And does not improve those of you who vote based on his rhetoric, are the ones to blame. Fool me once, don't fool me twice.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,065 posts, read 15,485,226 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Exactly! Likewise, while some white Americans oppose Obama due to racism, MOST oppose him due to his policies. I am sooooooo sick of racism being manufactured to support agendas.
Be prepared to get real sick, when 1 party is overwhelmingly White and opposed to the Black president you will have race cards.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 02:09 PM
 
31,713 posts, read 14,631,102 times
Reputation: 8456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Be prepared to get real sick, when 1 party is overwhelmingly White and opposed to the Black president you will have race cards.
Why would you imply that because the Republican party is composed of mostly white Americans and they oppose Obama that the race card is justified? Obama is a Democrat. All Republicans oppose the policies of the Democrats and vice versa and that is the bottom line not race. Didn't Republicans also oppose Bill Clinton for the same reasons? Didn't Democrats oppose Bush for the same reasons. Did black Americans oppose Bush because he is white? Come on, now.
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