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Old 08-27-2012, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Benicar,

I think you greatly misjudge me after these years.

1) Here is my principal on Illegal Immigration in the US:

I believe the United States Corporations sought to bring in people that will work cheaper and harder, those people have arrived in large numbers unimpeded by Government. It doesn't matter what country they are from I believe the US has shown enough fault to ensure the safety and proper handling of these people.

2) I am of mixed ethnicity like most Americans. Living in California and Florida where I have seen first hand the treatment/discrimination of illegals in the US got me into this issue.

Finally, I have noticed that many of the anti-illegals here are also the same who are anti-Hispanic and anti-Legal immigration as well. The same posters (ALL American NYC and ChicagoNut, JDubsMom etc...) post in the same racist threads elsewhere on the forum. It's blantantly obvious where these people stand and take issue on the subject.
I didn't misjudge you. I merely asked if your support for illegal aliens was due to shared ethnicity. It was a question, not an indictment. I also asked if the majority of illegals were Haitian, if you would have the same unwavering support. I realize many Hispanics oppose illegal immigration. In fact, I know quite a few. I also realize many Hispanics support illegal aliens solely due to a sense of ethnic solidarity. In my opinion, that's wrong.

I agree with Eleanora, Oldglory, and softflueyz. So, I really don't have much to add. However, I believe you have misjudged most of the posters on this forum. If AANYC is so anti-Hispanic, please explain why he was disturbed by a "Hispanic" thread title, and commented that he felt it was wrong to insinuate Hispanic = illegal? As for chicagonut and JDubsMom, I have had countless private discussions with both. I can assure you, neither is racist, and neither is anti-Hispanic. I knew JDubsMom prior to this forum, and am still in contact with her. In fact, she is a dear friend. Yes, she abhors illegal immigration, as do I. But, that does NOT make her an evil person. It certainly doesn't qualify as being racist. FWIW, I don't associate with bigots.

You fail to realize our disdain is for illegal aliens, their greedy employers, and our spineless, pandering government. The fact that the overwhelming majority of illegals are Hispanic, does not translate into racism against Hispanics. Nor is the enforcement of our laws discrimination against Hispanics. Even the so-called "otherwise law-abiding" aren't blameless. They have a wanton disregard for others, as evidenced by their willful theft of identities. In addition, many of those "fake" SSNs actually belong to "real" people. So, it is hardly a victimless crime. Surely, you can understand why so many are outraged by this invasion. And yes, it is an invasion.

Make no mistake, some anti-illegals are racist. However, opposition to illegal immigration is not inherently racist. But, if the race hustlers continue to distort this issue, and the government continues to pander to illegals, it certainly has the potential for becoming something very ugly. We have had enough.

If Hispanic illegal aliens weren't so incredibly selfish, and actually cared about Hispanic citizens, they would not have sullied their image. I don't know about you, but I am not aware of any significant Hispanic issues prior to massive illegal immigration. Rather than supporting illegal immigration, Hispanic citizens should be at the front of the line protesting their presence in this country. But, I guess for most Hispanics, ethnicity trumps all. . . . even to their own detriment.

 
Old 08-27-2012, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Be prepared to get real sick, when 1 party is overwhelmingly White and opposed to the Black president you will have race cards.
How is that related to illegal immigration?
 
Old 08-27-2012, 04:49 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post
Are you not aware that these immigration policies you all love to cling to were enacted during the Cold War? The ones before the cold war were nearly all based in keeping certain races out of our cities.


Please cite the part in our Constitution where it says that immigration can be restricted.



Brag? How did I brag? I stated that it was wrong that she was being deported even though she was a good citizen. As a hair stylist who operated her own business and who paid her taxes, she did not take a job away from anyone as she was a SKILLED worker whose skill allowed her to gain a customer base.

One can pay taxes without American citizenship, just like Romney paid taxes abroad (supposedly) even though he was not a citizen of that country.


Clearly welfare does not supplement her income, as she is a hard-working woman with a real job that takes skill and experience to do.

What makes being "American" so special? A huge portion of this country does not deserve my tax dollars because they are fat, lazy, uneducated morons. Just because some idiot is born in America doesn't make them more deserving of anything. It is clearly ethnocentrism at its finest to suggest that simply being born here gives a person special entitlements.

Anti-immigration people are not only completely ignorant to history, they are clearly not very well educated in economics. No SKILLED worker is being replaced by an illegal immigrant, it just doesn't happen that way. None of our economic problems is the result of illegal immigration, other than the wasteful spending on combatting it. If you really care about the country, why not focus on the actual problems?

Worried about the Mexican cartels? Legalize drugs and eliminate their main source of income.
Worried about the price of food? End government subsidies on certain farm products which cause other products to skyrocket in price.
Worried about gas prices? Get off the freaking oil already.
Worried about the budget? How about ending those occupations of Germany, Japan, Korea, The Philippines, etc.?

I live minutes from the Tijuana border, so why is immigration less of a problem for us than in places like Missouri and other non-border states? Because it's not a real problem, we know it because the cities with the highest crime rates actually either border Canada (Detroit, Buffalo), or they are nowhere near Mexico. Lowest murder rate in America? El Paso, Texas (0.8 murders per 100,000 residents)...right there on the border of Juarez. San Diego, CA is not far behind, with a murder rate of only 2.2/100,000 (Minneapolis has one of 9.6, Milwaukee is 15.5/100,000 and the nearly immigrant-free New Orleans is at 49.6/100,000).

So why is illegal immigration such a problem for you people when it's clearly not a problem either financially or socially? Border towns with Mexico are essentially 5 times as safe as the national average of 10 murders per 100,000 residents. Even if you combine the murder rates of San Diego and El Paso, they only total 3 murders/100,000 residents, lower than all but 6 out of the 70 cities with 250,000+ people.
Our immigration quotas change with the needs of our country. Is that a bad thing? Who cares what policies/quotas were in place long ago? I already told you what they are today and they aren't discriminatory especially towards minorities.

The woman you mentioned was an illegal immigrant not a citizen of this country. All jobs that illegal immigrants hold and have no right to are jobs that an American could have had. I don't know how you can reason it any other way. I never said that non-citizens couldn't or don't pay taxes. Try reading again what I said about paying income taxes with a fake or stolen ID which is against the law and creates a mess for the Americans whose ID or SS was stolen or taking more out o our tax coffers than one pays in.

No it isn't clear whether or not she tapped into our welfare coffers. Did she give birth here? It's possible then.

What makes an American so special? In every country it's citizens have more rights than non-citizens regardless of whether they are good people or not. Is this a revelation to you? Ethnocentricsm? Uh, Americans are of all ethnicities. Yes, because they are born or naturalized here they are citizens and are entitled to special rights. It works that way in every country not just ours and well it should.

Here we go with the same old rhetoric about being anti-immigration. Most Americans do not oppose legal immigration they oppose illegal immigration. So that doesn't make one anti-immigrant. You're so wrong that illegal immigrants aren't doing any skilled jobs that should belong to Americans. Many manual labor jobs require skills. I focus on all the problems that ail our country. One of them is illegal immigration. You couldn't be more wrong that illegal immigration hasn't had a negative impact on our economy and society. There are many stats available in this forum backing that up. Just search for them. Just plain old common sense should tell you that anything illegal is a negative, period.

I think I have covered everything here so I have no further need to debate back and forth with you. The fact that you think illegal immigrants should have just as much or more rights than Americans based on their work ethics or some other nonsense rather than basing rights on citizenship is just too much for me to bear reading anymore.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post

Children born in the US are American Citizens, it's part of the constitution. Kicking the parents of an American citizen out seems pretty darned un-American to me. As a patriot and a veteran, I believe that our country became the strongest one in the world through our open immigration policies. You do realize that the closed-minded immigration you people push for is a relatively recent thing, right?

The first 100 years had no restrictions on immigration, and those are the years where we grew from a tiny colony to a world power. The Page Act was the first immigration restriction act, and it was essentially a racist act trying to keep Chinese people away. Immigration acts have nearly all been racially or politically motivated, they were not in any way in line with the founding of the country which was done with OPEN IMMIGRATION FOR A REASON!

If you don't believe in open immigration, you are un-American. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Hancock, Ben Franklin, George Washington and the rest of our founding fathers would be spinning in their graves if they knew about the crazy laws people have enacted to close our borders.
Sorry, different time, different needs. But, please don't make me laugh. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Hancock, Ben Franklin, and George Washington were ALL slave owners. Yes, I suppose they would be turning over in their graves if they knew we now have a POTUS with black African ancestry. Give me a friggin break.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 05:02 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post

Children born in the US are American Citizens, it's part of the constitution. Kicking the parents of an American citizen out seems pretty darned un-American to me. As a patriot and a veteran, I believe that our country became the strongest one in the world through our open immigration policies. You do realize that the closed-minded immigration you people push for is a relatively recent thing, right?

The first 100 years had no restrictions on immigration, and those are the years where we grew from a tiny colony to a world power. The Page Act was the first immigration restriction act, and it was essentially a racist act trying to keep Chinese people away. Immigration acts have nearly all been racially or politically motivated, they were not in any way in line with the founding of the country which was done with OPEN IMMIGRATION FOR A REASON!

If you don't believe in open immigration, you are un-American. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Hancock, Ben Franklin, George Washington and the rest of our founding fathers would be spinning in their graves if they knew about the crazy laws people have enacted to close our borders.
Children born in the USA to citizen parents and legal resident parents are born as US Citizens. Children born to illegal immigrants, at best may be US Nationals. The 14th does not guarantee automatic BRC to all. It is and has been assumed that these children are born USC, but their is no documented proof they are. A birth certificate is only the beginning of an ID for the child, there is no status on it for the child or of the parents. It is Obama policy through DoS FAM 1110, 1111 that children born to illegals may be US citizens according to their interpretation of Wong Kim Ark.

Kicking the parents out of a child who is their responsibility isn't un-American. There is no law saying that the child is a US Citizen no matter how much you think there is, so with the child being a possible US National, there is really no un-Americanism either.

Closed-minded immigration being pushed? You do realize that immigration has been limited since 1606 right? Prior to the US, one had to have the authorization of the King to come to the USA, the Colonies had limits as to who could migrate into their colonies (some of the States still have their immigration restrictions within their own State Constitutions), the US has always limited who can enter and remain. You do realize that the Treaty of Tientsin and the Burlingame treaty was directly from the Chinese Emporer not allowing Chinese citizens to become any other nations citizen, right? The Page Act was about undesirables due to the Opium coming in with "contracted labor" and prostitutes. Learn your history first.

The founding fathers believed in "open immigration"? You do realize that they only allowed "free white men" to become citizens right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post
Did you not read the rest of my post? The country was founded without immigration being restricted in any way. They then set an annual quota, but it was not until 100 years after the country was founded that the first laws to restrict immigrations were enacted, and they were done so out of blatant racism.

Like the War on Drugs and the War on Terror, racism and prejudice play a major role in the War on Immigration. None of them are valuable wars, we waste billions on them and they are completely futile. We could instead spend that money on making sure those who are actually criminals under the constitutional laws of this country are actually prosecuted and identified properly.

I know a woman who is being deported right now who has lived in the country for 20 years and had a successful career as a hair stylist. She was in no way a criminal and simply came here with her family when she was a little girl, but because of our unconstitutional immigration laws, she's being sent away from a life she has built over two decades. She paid taxes and she contributed to the economy, yet she's being sent away. Meanwhile, we have PLENTY of American-born rednecks, hicks and ghetto thugs who get to do their meth/crack on MY tax dollars. I'd much rather support a hard-working immigrant than some fat, drugged-out American.
They had immigration laws before 1812, try reading the case of the Schooner Exchange. It talks about immigrants entering under implied or expressed conditions.

"Unconstitutional immigration laws"? You haven't the first clue of what you are now discussing. The rest of your diatribe is just that, personal diatribe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post
Are you not aware that these immigration policies you all love to cling to were enacted during the Cold War? The ones before the cold war were nearly all based in keeping certain races out of our cities.


Please cite the part in our Constitution where it says that immigration can be restricted.



Brag? How did I brag? I stated that it was wrong that she was being deported even though she was a good citizen. As a hair stylist who operated her own business and who paid her taxes, she did not take a job away from anyone as she was a SKILLED worker whose skill allowed her to gain a customer base.

One can pay taxes without American citizenship, just like Romney paid taxes abroad (supposedly) even though he was not a citizen of that country.


Clearly welfare does not supplement her income, as she is a hard-working woman with a real job that takes skill and experience to do.

What makes being "American" so special? A huge portion of this country does not deserve my tax dollars because they are fat, lazy, uneducated morons. Just because some idiot is born in America doesn't make them more deserving of anything. It is clearly ethnocentrism at its finest to suggest that simply being born here gives a person special entitlements.

Anti-immigration people are not only completely ignorant to history, they are clearly not very well educated in economics. No SKILLED worker is being replaced by an illegal immigrant, it just doesn't happen that way. None of our economic problems is the result of illegal immigration, other than the wasteful spending on combatting it. If you really care about the country, why not focus on the actual problems?

Worried about the Mexican cartels? Legalize drugs and eliminate their main source of income.
Worried about the price of food? End government subsidies on certain farm products which cause other products to skyrocket in price.
Worried about gas prices? Get off the freaking oil already.
Worried about the budget? How about ending those occupations of Germany, Japan, Korea, The Philippines, etc.?

I live minutes from the Tijuana border, so why is immigration less of a problem for us than in places like Missouri and other non-border states? Because it's not a real problem, we know it because the cities with the highest crime rates actually either border Canada (Detroit, Buffalo), or they are nowhere near Mexico. Lowest murder rate in America? El Paso, Texas (0.8 murders per 100,000 residents)...right there on the border of Juarez. San Diego, CA is not far behind, with a murder rate of only 2.2/100,000 (Minneapolis has one of 9.6, Milwaukee is 15.5/100,000 and the nearly immigrant-free New Orleans is at 49.6/100,000).

So why is illegal immigration such a problem for you people when it's clearly not a problem either financially or socially? Border towns with Mexico are essentially 5 times as safe as the national average of 10 murders per 100,000 residents. Even if you combine the murder rates of San Diego and El Paso, they only total 3 murders/100,000 residents, lower than all but 6 out of the 70 cities with 250,000+ people.
The Cold War from 1947? prior to the cold war it was about keeping them out of our cities? And here I thought they have been around since the US Constitution (they were actually around since the Articles of Confederation, Article IV) and Congress being expressly given power over naturalization, Article 1 Section 8. The first US Immigration Act was in 1795 and was very limiting in its allowances. Are you in Jr. High? You don't seem to actually know anything about US history...AT ALL.

She was a "good citizen"? She was never a citizen, she could have applied numerous times after 1986 to become legal, she chose not too. She was still an illegal immigrant whether you claim she paid taxes or not.

Romney paid taxes abroad? Where do you get this stuff?

Special entitlements are held for citizens, there are allowed entitlements for legal residents, there should be no entitlements for illegal aliens (1986 Immigration Act).

Ignorant of history, not educated in economics? Your batting a .0000. I've already shown your claims about history as your ignorance, would you like to attempt to further show your ignorance? Please show your economic knowledge......this oughta be fun.

Immigrant free N.O.? You do realize that all the illegals went there to help rebuild it after Katrina, right? I just killed 2 birds with one stone, your claim they aren't doing skilled labor (construction, welding, etc) and that N.O. has had a very large influx of illegals.

Just, WOW!

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 08-27-2012 at 05:50 PM..
 
Old 08-27-2012, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
NOOOOOO WAYYYY

This is a ridiculous topic..there are plenty of racists out there to justify everyone being called racists.

Anti-illegals get used to it.
Okay, then I suppose we can consider all illegal aliens ID thieves, rapists, murderers, pedophiles, drunk drivers, gangbangers, cartel members, fraudsters, and parasites because there are plenty of illegals to justify EVERY illegal being painted with the same brush. Incredible!
 
Old 08-27-2012, 05:16 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Sorry, different time, different needs. But, please don't make me laugh. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Hancock, Ben Franklin, and George Washington were ALL slave owners. Yes, I suppose they would be turning over in their graves if they knew we now have a POTUS with black African ancestry. Give me a friggin break.
I guess if we oppose allowing all of the 2 billion impoverished across the world to migrate here that makes us un-American? . When did we close our borders? Did I miss something? Don't we allow in over 1 million legal immigrants annually?
 
Old 08-27-2012, 06:19 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post
Did you not read the rest of my post? The country was founded without immigration being restricted in any way. They then set an annual quota, but it was not until 100 years after the country was founded that the first laws to restrict immigrations were enacted, and they were done so out of blatant racism.

Like the War on Drugs and the War on Terror, racism and prejudice play a major role in the War on Immigration. None of them are valuable wars, we waste billions on them and they are completely futile. We could instead spend that money on making sure those who are actually criminals under the constitutional laws of this country are actually prosecuted and identified properly.

I know a woman who is being deported right now who has lived in the country for 20 years and had a successful career as a hair stylist. She was in no way a criminal and simply came here with her family when she was a little girl, but because of our unconstitutional immigration laws, she's being sent away from a life she has built over two decades. She paid taxes and she contributed to the economy, yet she's being sent away. Meanwhile, we have PLENTY of American-born rednecks, hicks and ghetto thugs who get to do their meth/crack on MY tax dollars. I'd much rather support a hard-working immigrant than some fat, drugged-out American.
It's time to really cut down immigration for a while till the US gets its ducks in a row.

Your illegal alien hair cutter friend IS a criminal IMHO. She needs to go HOME and cuss out her parents for not making her legal in the US.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 06:23 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,278,864 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post

Children born in the US are American Citizens, it's part of the constitution. Kicking the parents of an American citizen out seems pretty darned un-American to me. As a patriot and a veteran, I believe that our country became the strongest one in the world through our open immigration policies. You do realize that the closed-minded immigration you people push for is a relatively recent thing, right?

The first 100 years had no restrictions on immigration, and those are the years where we grew from a tiny colony to a world power. The Page Act was the first immigration restriction act, and it was essentially a racist act trying to keep Chinese people away. Immigration acts have nearly all been racially or politically motivated, they were not in any way in line with the founding of the country which was done with OPEN IMMIGRATION FOR A REASON!

If you don't believe in open immigration, you are un-American. Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Hancock, Ben Franklin, George Washington and the rest of our founding fathers would be spinning in their graves if they knew about the crazy laws people have enacted to close our borders.
Uh; things change and its time to shut the door to immigration with a few exceptions like political refugees and so on ONLY. 5 to 10 years would do just fine.
 
Old 08-27-2012, 06:49 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,287,998 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Okay, then I suppose we can consider all illegal aliens ID thieves, rapists, murderers, pedophiles, drunk drivers, gangbangers, cartel members, fraudsters, and parasites because there are plenty of illegals to justify EVERY illegal being painted with the same brush. Incredible!
You made a good valid point. I can see this viewpoint.
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