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Old 09-10-2012, 01:44 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,556,066 times
Reputation: 2360

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
I don't see how creating an enclave within America that forces Non-(insert group) Americans to basically learn a foreign language if they want to live or work in that part of America isn't in essence a demand on Americans that if you want to live in this part of America you damn well better speak our language in addition to English.
You are missing the point. If a non-(insert group) of illegals and/or legals feel they are limited because of a language barrier in America, they should not make demands on an entire society to learn their language in order for them to have the opportunities as English speaking Americans do, as well as all other immigrants who learned English language as a second language. If they choose not to learn English, don't blame an English speaking society because of self-imposed limitations. Why should an entire society be told to learn a foreign language to accommodate foreigners? We didn't ask them to come to the US.

If you choose to make another country your permanent home where another language is spoken other than your mother tongue, then you need to speak the language of that country. If you don't expect to face barriers and limitations. In this case English is the mother tongue of the US. Unfortunately our forefathers didn't make English our national language, which is something that needs to be done.

Personally I don't care if foreigners don't want to learn English. Just don't b*tch about how limited you made yourself to opportunities and entering society in general. But don't demand that I learn a foreign language so as to accommodate foreigners who took it upon themselves to enter the US - either legally or illegally. If they don't want to learn English as a second language then best they stay right where they are or immigrate to another country where their language is spoken. It's really that simple.

Did Hawaii, a state, demand that the other 49 states adopt Hawaiian as a second language? Did Puerto Rico, a commonwealth of the US, ever demand that people in the US speak Spanish? Now we have illegals, people who don't even belong in the US, who benefit at the taxpayers expense by government handouts, demanding that Americans speak Spanish.

The whole issue of illegals and their demands has happened within the past two years when Obama gave them protection and allowed them to come out of the shadows. It is only because of this administration's efforts to protect illegals (to get the hispanic vote) that illegals have become so bold and make demands on Americans and the government. If illegals behaved in most countries the way they do in the US, they would be rounded up and deported - no jail time (why have that added expense?) - just a ticket out. In other countries illegals caught get punished, in the US illegals dont't have any fear of punishment - which would be deportation - and are free to roam and get rewarded. I guess if Obama can't get amnesty pushed through, he will script another EO wherein he will create the "US Undocumented American Passport" for illegals (in their native language of course).
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:39 AM
 
31,710 posts, read 14,622,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
It is not the same. Knowing the primary language of a country, in this case English, can open doors for opportunities.

When you have an enclave where people speak a language that is not universal to the country they live in, one becomes confined to that enclave. Spanish-speaking-only people without the ability to speak English will be confined to their enclave. What they are saying is that Americans should learn Spanish so that they, the Spanish-speaking-only, can go beyond their enclave as speaking Spanish is the only language they know and it is more convenient for them that English speaking citizens learn Spanish than it is for them to learn English.

You know yourself that those that do not speak English and live in Chinese, Polish, Italian, Russian, etc. enclaves stay within the territory that they are comfortable in. Everything they need is within that enclave. They live and work within their enclave. Everyone they deal with speaks their first and only language. I didn't do it often, but when shopping I have seen this in Russian, Chinese, Spanish enclaves. In many cases there will be one person working in the store that has limited English while the rest can't speak or comprehend English. Enclaves are meant to keep "outsiders" out. It is the creation of a society within a much larger society, yet never being a part of the larger society.
Beyond those ethnic enclaves out in mainsteam America it is mostly only Spanish that is being pushed for example in businesses such as signeage, advertisements and for job opportunities. As has been noted in here (backed up with links) most Hispanic Americans are bi-lingual so what is the reason for that? There are elderly immigrants/citizens from many ethnic and national backgrounds here not just those who speak Spanish.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:34 AM
 
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Quote by Teddy Roosevelt by IBMMuseum - "We should provide for every immigrant, by day-schools for the young and night-schools for the adult, the chance to learn English; and if after, say, five years he has not learned English, he should be sent back to the land from whence he came"

I can't count the number of times that I have known of someone who has lived in this country for over 5 years and still can't speak English. I guess it was decided to disregard Roosevelt's words above as they are still here.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,556,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Beyond those ethnic enclaves out in mainsteam America it is mostly only Spanish that is being pushed for example in businesses such as signeage, advertisements and for job opportunities. As has been noted in here (backed up with links) most Hispanic Americans are bi-lingual so what is the reason for that? There are elderly immigrants/citizens from many ethnic and national backgrounds here not just those who speak Spanish.
Hispanics are the only ones demanding that Americans (who don't speak Spanish) learn Spanish. It appears to me that it isn't a large population of hispanics making this demand, but a certain segment. The very same ones who are chanting that the land of America belongs to "them", that it was stolen from "them" and doesn't belong to Americans. If they could they would change the name of this country from America to Hispanica.

Before technology gave us "language options" everything was in English. With the introduction of "language options" there was a choice of two: English and Spanish. Now there are multiple language options depending on what neighborhood you go to. Go to a Chinese neighborhood and you will find ATM machines with English, Espanol and Chinese characters.

As a country, we cannot accommodate everyone who does not speak English. If those within an enclave, regardless of ethnicity or national backgrounds, choose not to learn English, then they have to accept the limitations they set for themselves.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:03 AM
 
31,710 posts, read 14,622,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Hispanics are the only ones demanding that Americans (who don't speak Spanish) learn Spanish. It appears to me that it isn't a large population of hispanics making this demand, but a certain segment. The very same ones who are chanting that the land of America belongs to "them", that it was stolen from "them" and doesn't belong to Americans. If they could they would change the name of this country from America to Hispanica.

Before technology gave us "language options" everything was in English. With the introduction of "language options" there was a choice of two: English and Spanish. Now there are multiple language options depending on what neighborhood you go to. Go to a Chinese neighborhood and you will find ATM machines with English, Espanol and Chinese characters.

As a country, we cannot accommodate everyone who does not speak English. If those within an enclave, regardless of ethnicity or national backgrounds, choose not to learn English, then they have to accept the limitations they set for themselves.
I understand what you are saying and I agree, however my remarks were about the only foreign language choice being offered outside of all ethnic enclaves or neighborhoods. I have always thought it was because of the large number of illegal immigrants who speak Spanish. I just can't attribute it to anything else.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,949,006 times
Reputation: 27520
How can anyone compare going through Ellis Island legally to crossing the Rio Grande illegally is beyond me.
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