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"the U.S. should adopt the policy that Australia has.....before one can move to Australia, they must have a job waiting for them"
Australia does have the advantage of being an island. I believe one of the major issues of illegal immigration in the U.S. is the simple possibility of coming across the border in droves. Australia doesn't have that problem.
I did read somewhere (?) that a large percentage of illegal immigrants in the U.S. are people from all over who overstay their legal visas. But of course, in some states and areas, there are disproportionate numbers of people who can walk over the border- Mexican/Central Americans.
I do think if the illegal immigrants weren't poor people, there'd be less issue with them. However, not-poor people are a whole less likely to hike over a dangerous border... for what?
I don't get this mentality, although admit it's true. I just had the house painted by a local contractor. Most of the painting crew could not speak English. I don't know if they were illegal, but they did get the house painted fast. Only problem was the company had to send a supervisor and another painter out to take care of all the mistakes. Maybe Jose can do the work in half the time but Mexico is not generally known for producing quality products and a lot of times it shows in the workmanship.
Plus they took 2 hour lunches and were standing around a lot. I know for a fact they lost a job due to the quality of work. I know I'll never recommend the company to anyone.
agreed. i've seen some of the handiwork of restaurants that used illegals for their drywall/painting. it looked very sloppy and really took away from the classiness of the restaurant aura. i vowed never to eat there again after i used the restroom at that place.
blah blah blah. It seems like a sick trend to blame illegal aliens for the woes of American society. How many of you "Americans" want to go work in the fields for 12+ hours a day for minimum wage?? How many americans don't pay taxes? Quite a few actually and you can't lie. Who HELPS illegals cheat on their taxes? Their own AMERICAN and MEXICAN employers because in the end it helps them. How can you sit there and not give an original thought on the situation? Everyone just repeats the same statement. "they are taking our jobs, they think they are american." You guys point out the faults in other races buy fail to acknowledge your own. I am fulled blooded Mexican that was born here in the U.S. and I can understand the frusterations of others. But what I don't understand is the HATE that people like you spew everyday. It's getting old. Blame the government who let this get out of control.
who's talking about working in the fields? admittedly, most americans probably would not work in the fields. it is the constant stream of foreign workers that we see that have all but taken over painting, landscaping, roofing, construction,etc. these were good paying jobs for americans for many years. most of these folks grew up in so cal in its heyday when the middle class was robust and strong, the true american dream. you could go a restaurant and be served by someone who spoke english. it is no longer possible to sustain a healthy life due to all the poisons that the hiring of illegals has done to so cal. it is NOT hate. it is a FACT that illegals have stolen the california dream. btw, before you start calling me a racist, i'll tell you that i am mexican american
blah blah blah. It seems like a sick trend to blame illegal aliens for the woes of American society. How many of you "Americans" want to go work in the fields for 12+ hours a day for minimum wage?? How many americans don't pay taxes? Quite a few actually and you can't lie. Who HELPS illegals cheat on their taxes? Their own AMERICAN and MEXICAN employers because in the end it helps them. How can you sit there and not give an original thought on the situation? Everyone just repeats the same statement. "they are taking our jobs, they think they are american." You guys point out the faults in other races buy fail to acknowledge your own. I am fulled blooded Mexican that was born here in the U.S. and I can understand the frusterations of others. But what I don't understand is the HATE that people like you spew everyday. It's getting old. Blame the government who let this get out of control.
As far as the workers who work the fields I have 2 alternatives. 1) Get all the people on welfare to go out there and earn their money, or 2) Set guards up along the perimeter of the field and have the California state prisoners do it. Gives them a chance to earn some money and be outside in the sunshine, and would save about $4 an hour over what the illegals get paid.
Well, I'm not the moderator of this forum but I just happened by searching for something else.
This discussion has drifted away from the OP's question. It has become a debate which should belong in the Immigration forum.
I'm closing it until your moderator gets back (I haven't even checked to see who is the moderator of this forum) and hopefully can get the discussion back on topic.
This thread has been moved to the Immigration Forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scirocco22
Well, I'm not the moderator of this forum but I just happened by searching for something else.
This discussion has drifted away from the OP's question. It has become a debate which should belong in the Immigration forum.
I'm closing it until your moderator gets back (I haven't even checked to see who is the moderator of this forum) and hopefully can get the discussion back on topic.
roofer, sadly being a natively born So. Cal'er I know 100% what you're talking about. Unfortunately if you haven't lived in Co. Cal you really don't understand the problem.
While we do have some problems here in Colorado, they are not nearly has prevalent as they are in California in general (and even more so in So. Cal). I can say that the vast majority of the time I can go into any fast food restaurant here and know that I can communicate with the person taking my order. Heck there's even a good chance that person is a native English speaker! It's a unique change from So. Cal. where English seems to be the second language now.
I have no direct experience in the construction industry here in Colorado (I did in So Cal as I worked as a painter for a while in college), but my neighbor used to be a residential electrician. He says there is still a lot of the illegal can barely swing a hammer correctly workers here. I think it's just part of the American business mentality right now. While companies like IBM, Dell, Mattel, Bank of America, etc... are out sourcing as much of the work they can off-shore, industries like construction are "out sourcing" the labor that has to be done here in the US. So expect to see it any place you go. Sadly.
The problems aren't of the immigrants, they are the problems of the government and people of this country that aren't stepping up and doing the right thing. We are too worried about getting our starbucks, our dream homes, and every toy in the world all as cheap as possible with out any understanding of the long term effects of what we are doing to out country, and in some cases the rest of the world.
(Dismounts soap box now)
I gave you rep for this post, -I agree! (for the most part). -Emil.
I wish that people could understand what is happening to CA and FL as well as other places. I have lived in CA,CO and FL, and I have seen the deleterious effects caused by a government that refuses to uphold the law. You are right, indeed, EscapeCalifornia. I am now ready to escape FL. Unless one has experienced what we have experienced, that person will never really understand. BUT, people will come to understand as the invasion begins to affect their particular area. There are laws that have always governed immigration, and my grandparents adhered to such laws when they arrived from Europe in the early 20th century. However, be assured that most people in this nation desire that the law be enforced. Some people will never "get it" until confronted on a personal level with the problem.
I agree that illegal immigration is a huge problem, as is TOO MUCH legal immigration, even. However, I must set the record straight on a few things:
100 years ago, until 1924, except for immigration from Asia, -immigration to the U.S. was nearly unrestricted. Sure immigrants were supposed to come through legal channels, -but just about anyone who wasn't a felon or bum come without legal restriction. Now, except for immediate family relatives, there are strict per country quotas in place. Also, English was not learned fluently if at all by most actual immigrants in the early 20'th century anymore then by hispanics today. -That was not until after world war two when there was a far lower % of foreign born in the U.S. Most children of Latino immigrant or migrants DO learn to speak English fluently, -in the public schools. Most 3+ generation Mexican-Americans do not even speak spanish anymore. (The majority of the latter being descended from early 20'th century migrants to the U.S. southwest after the secund Mexican revolution, or even earlier spanish settlers in what is now New Mexico, far south Texas, and southern Colorado).
Today the laws on immigration are far more restrictive then they were back then, -and for good reason.
Today there is three times as many people in the U.S. as there was back then, -we have enough people already+ the economy has also changed and this migration cannot be justified today as benefiting this country, -just the opposite. -So, There are good reasons for today's more restrictive laws, -but many people just don't seem to get the idea. Apparently, if it worked back then it will work now.
Not all "nativists" think alike, -don't overgeneralize.
My anger is primarily with the employers and the whole economic situation of global imperialism, war in Iraq+NAFTA, outsourcing, etc. I think that illegal immigration is a huge problem here but the root of the problem is the globalist/fascist/capitalism system that keeps growing. It is also a corrupt Mexican government that points the fingers at the U.S. and encourages migration north to try to avoid responsibility, -and a U.S. capitalist class that largely supports them as well.
It is discrimination and class/cultural bigotry against the non bilingual native born U.S. working class who are being gradually put out of work and impoverished. -Yes most of us still work, no most of us do NOT qualify for well fair, -and their is a 5 year lifetime limit on that anyway. most of us are not disabled either, and are not on disability.
I am sick of hearing "jobs americans wont do", -I do one of those jobs and many U.S. citizens, -even many younger ones- still do as well. A lot more would with better job opportunities and more available vocational training. -Most illegal immigrants do NOT work in farm work, and it is only hired crop farm workers who are mainly foreign born, -not even all agricultural workers in the nation as a whole. Most illegal workers are definitely involved in displacing american workers, directly or indirectly (such as through new sub-contracting etc.)
Finally, it is about U.S. national sovereignty being violated, -The U.S. is NOT mostly a land of immigrants!!! -Being descended from immigrants dose NOT make one an immigrant. If you go back in time, almost all people in ALL countries are descended from immigrants, -and often not the first on their land. It is just a matter of how far back you go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juliejose
blah blah blah. It seems like a sick trend to blame illegal aliens for the woes of American society. How many of you "Americans" want to go work in the fields for 12+ hours a day for minimum wage?? How many americans don't pay taxes? Quite a few actually and you can't lie. Who HELPS illegals cheat on their taxes? Their own AMERICAN and MEXICAN employers because in the end it helps them. How can you sit there and not give an original thought on the situation? Everyone just repeats the same statement. "they are taking our jobs, they think they are american." You guys point out the faults in other races buy fail to acknowledge your own. I am fulled blooded Mexican that was born here in the U.S. and I can understand the frusterations of others. But what I don't understand is the HATE that people like you spew everyday. It's getting old. Blame the government who let this get out of control.
I DO blame the Government, -and all the greedy and lazy Americans who have supported it, -but that is NOT the majority of us.
I also DO know that many americans pay Taxes, -I am well aware of my country and people faults and I think frankly the U.S. is likely headed for a new great depression and may well be an ultimate failure. Don't overgeneralize about "nativists" -we don't all think alike! -Emil.
Get used to it buddy. As more and more illegal immigrants are coming over the borders more generations of Mexicans are coming out. The more educated generations which means that we are moving up to the Middle class and beyond. I know your frustration but its just the way it is now. Say you were the contractor, would you pay a legal worker who doesn't work as fast as those immigrants $65k/yr? or Pay Jose $40,000/yr who does the work in half the time?
White people can try to run away, sooner or later we will all be living in VERY diverse areas. Does the American dream not exist in your mind?
For me it is not "white people", -it is Loyal americans of ANY race/ethnic background who believe in national sovereignty, vs. Imperialist Neocons, and globalist "left" neoliberals, -and immigrants who think that they can enter at will and do not respect this country.
Sure their are many racists masquerading as nativists, -but that is not me and being nativist and nationalist is NOT a form of racism simply by definition. We are diverse in our own views.
The american Dream still exists, but is in decline. And I would pay the legal worker, -who I could easily hire for 40K a year in a region without outrageous housing costs (Which are much higher on average -all else being equal- in immigrants heavy regions(!) -The American dream used to most often represent (and still dose for many) a secure middle class but not glamorous standard of living as a blue collar worker for the majority who will likely never poses a college degree. That is gradually disappearing.
-The U.S. will likely be a third world country in a few generations (or maybe much sooner the that), -but I don't think that high levils of immigration will just keep occurring without a HUGE backlash occurring that could lead to civil war. -However, I think that the U.S. will likely become a MUCH LESS attractive place for especially illegal migrants anyway well BEFORE we even get to that point.
I see a new great depression coming in the not too distant future, -and that will help to solve any 'labor shortage" problems we may now have in some industries! The "standard" U.S. way of life is NOT sustainable any more, -and in the long term neither is human civilization itself, -not with correct human population. We ARE in a mass extinction and have rising oceans do to global warming.
Yes, we are headed for a very big downfall in all likelihood. But in the mean time, I want smart decline and I don't think that can happen with open borders. If the open borders people press hard enough, -I am sure there will be civil war in this country.
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Good way of putting it!
Not all "nativists" think alike, -don't overgeneralize.
-Emil.
The "standard" U.S. way of life is NOT sustainable any more, -and in the long term neither is human civilization itself, -not with correct human population. We ARE in a mass extinction and have rising oceans do to global warming.
