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Old 09-18-2012, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,067 posts, read 15,505,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I think companies that hire them should be seized, dismantled and the principals shot! They're enemies of the country. What do you think, Armando....umm....Mach50?
I think if the anti-illegal crowd showed an equal contempt for the companies that they do for the Mexicans....ummm...illegals...it would be a much less controversial topic.


 
Old 09-18-2012, 09:51 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,868 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
I think if the anti-illegal crowd showed an equal contempt for the companies that they do for the Mexicans....ummm...illegals...it would be a much less controversial topic.

You do realize that most big business (corps) that had illegals working for them, the illegal was hired by the HR department, most of which was also the same ethnicity as the illegal (these HR persons were jailed as the owners had no idea - Swift Co.). There were a few exceptions where the owner told the HR department to hire them (these are the owners that should be jailed - Rubashkin - Agriprocessors Postville Raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). To claim with such a broad stroke of the brush, as you have, is what is controversial.
 
Old 09-18-2012, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,282,796 times
Reputation: 2531
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
SO, let me get this straight. If illegal immigration has all these benefits to our tax base, like you are pointing out, why aren't the politicians opening the floodgates up to all of Mexico so they can work illegally and pay more tax than they take in? Doesn't make sense to me
Exactly! As a proponent of a true global economy free of tariffs and subsidies I would ideally also like to see open borders...might as well extend the free flow of goods and services to also include free flow of human capital.

Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
Are you serious?? BILLIONS??? They ALL pay taxes?? None of them work off the books?
Yes, I believe it is fair to say that when all is said and done it is nearly impossible to live in this country without paying some kind of taxes, whether it is incomes taxes, sales taxes, property taxes or other less obvious taxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
They are not using the social programs (welfare, food stamps, free medical), but are keeping the social programs afloat in this country?
I never said that wasn't taking place, although I am confident that abuse of these programs is far less rampant than most people on this message board would seem to believe. Any time an illegal immigrant attmepts to receive one of these benefits he/she is risking getting caught and getting deported and frankly the vast majority of them are unwilling to take that risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
And for those that do pay federal taxes, aren't they claiming their 14 children and family members that live in Mexico on their tax returns??
Some do, but surprisingly not as many illegal immigrants do this as you might think. This is likely due to a lack of understanding of our tax system. Anyway, there are reports that have pretty accurate estimates of how much is collected in federal, state and local income taxes by illegal immigrants when all is said and done, and it's in the billions on an annual basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
The extent of the tax contribution made by the majority is the sales tax they pay when they make purchases.
Nope, they actually pay far more into income taxes. Also, I'd be interested to see what property taxes collected by illegal immigrants on an annual basis would amount to. You also have to consider all the illegal immigrants who rent as the property owners who end up paying the property tax there are able to make those payments from the rent income they are receiving. I believe that needs to be included in the equation as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
and what are they extracting in services? you have to subtract expenses from income in a budget.
Yes, and I will agree that the amount extracted in services is absolutely significant, especially when it comes to medical related expenses. I do see an opportunity for more accountability when it comes to people handling their own medical expenses, since illegal immigrants will not be covered in the new universal healthcare bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
also, figuring the sales tax is a tricky bit of business. if americans had higher wages, they could buy more and thus pay more in sales tax-but having too many unskilled labor workers in your country drives down the wages of the country. (other european countries are finding this out also now, and they are less enamored of their open border policies).
This is a valid point. To be fair, my $10 billion estimate was on the conservative side. I think even if they are found to spend less than average in the country we are still talking billions of dollars in tax revenue. More than anything, my main point here is that it is absolutely untrue that illegal immigrants in this country are living completely tax-free. I hope we can at least agree on that point.

Last edited by Cruz Azul Guy; 09-18-2012 at 10:05 PM..
 
Old 09-18-2012, 10:12 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,868 times
Reputation: 299
Cruz, I don't think anybody has denied they don't pay some sort of tax, the argument is that the taxes they do pay do not cover their costs. As I Pointed out, every economist out there will tell you they cost $89K over their lifetime to the US and they lower the GDP by approx. 1%. This is all equated from what t hey pay and what they use, hence why it is said they should be deported from an economics standpoint.

Legalizing them will increase the costs on social safety nets while still having the same net monies coming in, thus increasing taxes or cutting services to cover the costs even more so.

Who do you plan on running the One World gov't you are wanting? What type of economic system will there be? How do you plan on mixing the ethnicities, i.e. Christians and muslims?
 
Old 09-18-2012, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,020,887 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
...Who do you plan on running the One World gov't you are wanting? What type of economic system will there be? How do you plan on mixing the ethnicities, i.e. Christians and muslims?
Where does ethnicity define a religion?...
 
Old 09-18-2012, 10:39 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,296,787 times
Reputation: 5906
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post
I have a real job, an education and professional qualifications. My job will never be taken by an illegal immigrant.

I live in San Diego, one of America's safest cities...yet it's one of the most overcrowded with Illegals...so maybe Illegals don't cause crime or violence. Detroit does not have many Illegals, nor does East St. Louis, New Orleans or Washington DC, yet all those places are crime-ridden and violent. El Paso is even safer than San Diego and it's on the border with Juarez.

That's why Illegal Immigration is a non-issue to me.

That and the fact that immigration laws didn't exist for the first 100+ years of this nation and then were only first enacted out of racism against the Irish, Japanese, Chinese, etc.
I totally agree with you! Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Computer Programmers, Managers, etc. aren't worried about "illegals". The only folks who really care about this issue are those in the 'low-end' of the labor market.... and who really oughtta be going back to school and improving their competitiveness, instead of complaining now because they've always been so used to feeling "entitled"!
 
Old 09-18-2012, 10:54 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,334,860 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
I totally agree with you! Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, Computer Programmers, Managers, etc. aren't worried about "illegals". The only folks who really care about this issue are those in the 'low-end' of the labor market.... and who really oughtta be going back to school and improving their competitiveness, instead of complaining now because they've always been so used to feeling "entitled"!
Uh; what's wrong with people who DON'T have fancy college diplomas? Not every one is good enough for college so WHY should they have to fight ILLEGAL aliens for jobs in the US? Sheesh!

Let me know if YOUR job gets sent to India.
 
Old 09-18-2012, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,893 posts, read 12,282,796 times
Reputation: 2531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Who do you plan on running the One World gov't you are wanting? What type of economic system will there be? How do you plan on mixing the ethnicities, i.e. Christians and muslims?
Imagine NAFTA or the European Union, but worldwide...a completely open free trade market economy. You cannot propose any economic system that would be more efficient than this.
 
Old 09-19-2012, 12:24 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,868 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruz Azul Guy View Post
Imagine NAFTA or the European Union, but worldwide...a completely open free trade market economy. You cannot propose any economic system that would be more efficient than this.
In order for one to move from their country of origin in the EU they still have to apply for and receive authorization to live and work in another EU country. EU countries still hold tariffs on other EU countries products, each nation in the EU is still its own nation.

You do realize that "free trade" only works with goods and services, right, and that people are not goods, they are consumers and producers.
 
Old 09-19-2012, 04:25 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,296,787 times
Reputation: 5906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Uh; what's wrong with people who DON'T have fancy college diplomas? Not every one is good enough for college so WHY should they have to fight ILLEGAL aliens for jobs in the US? Sheesh!

Let me know if YOUR job gets sent to India.
IMHO, the job market is starting to parallel national patterns of urban decay, with the low end of the labor market looking increasingly like the "rust belt" towns.

Agreed, there's really nuthin' wrong with not having a college diploma, and it's true, most every part of the labor market is vulnerable now to some form of "outsourcing". But these days who's always gonna be more vulnerable, the worker with less training and less specialized skills, or the one with more...?

Like 'em or not, "illegals" are simply the wake-up call for that trend.
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