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Old 09-19-2012, 02:02 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,618 posts, read 31,198,912 times
Reputation: 26690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by claud605 View Post
well you've just described most of the attitudes in the good ol US of A these days, so probably.
And here I was thinking I was apathetic!

 
Old 09-19-2012, 02:24 PM
 
31,708 posts, read 14,622,494 times
Reputation: 8454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Well obviously Mexico has a lot of other "systemic" problems to overcome first, like widespread corruption, an entrenched political party, narco-trafficking & turf wars, and the lack of a middle class (though that part is slowly improving).

While arguably we have parts of our own country that seem to be "leading" the race in the "other direction"!

Texas Is a Shining Example of Right-Wing Governance in Action and That's Why It's a Complete Basket-Case

Tea party in the Sonora: For the future of G.O.P. governance, look to Arizona
Gee, could you possibly find any more leftwing biased sources?
 
Old 09-19-2012, 03:34 PM
 
24,760 posts, read 26,839,776 times
Reputation: 22799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruz Azul Guy View Post
The funny thing is that the opposite is true. Illegal immigrants working in restaurants, retail and other such jobs with false documents pay billions into benefits they will never receive like Medicare and Social Security and not to mention all of the money they are still being deducted for federal and state taxes. Thanks to them these social programs are still afloat in the country. It isn't like they are exempt from sales and property taxes either. Yes sir, illegal immigrants contribute plenty to the various tax coffers in this country on a federal, state and local basis.
People in low income jobs are generally net takers from the tax base. Social Security & Medicare taxes are pretty small parts of the overall tax system, and the services they take in terms of subsidized health care, schools, etc. far overwhelms anything they pay in taxes.
 
Old 09-19-2012, 04:43 PM
 
Location: John & Ken-ville
13,692 posts, read 15,130,564 times
Reputation: 9493
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post
I have a real job, an education and professional qualifications. My job will never be taken by an illegal immigrant.

I live in San Diego, one of America's safest cities...yet it's one of the most overcrowded with Illegals...so maybe Illegals don't cause crime or violence. Detroit does not have many Illegals, nor does East St. Louis, New Orleans or Washington DC, yet all those places are crime-ridden and violent. El Paso is even safer than San Diego and it's on the border with Juarez.

That's why Illegal Immigration is a non-issue to me.

That and the fact that immigration laws didn't exist for the first 100+ years of this nation and then were only first enacted out of racism against the Irish, Japanese, Chinese, etc.
If you drive an automobile, and drive anywhere in the State of California, beware of the drunk unlicensed illegal alien driver.

If you are maimed, murdered or anyone in your family is by an illegal alien driver, I believe you will have a different view of what illegal alien means to you.

There's a lot more involved than jobs or taxes.
 
Old 09-19-2012, 06:19 PM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,367 posts, read 8,278,836 times
Reputation: 5906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Gee, could you possibly find any more leftwing biased sources?
Whats left- or right-wing have to do with basic facts? Like for example that Texas' "economic miracle" was mostly because the population grew by 20 percent over the past decade, with Hispanics accounting for almost two-thirds of that growth. So a surge in people created greater demand for goods and services (which leads to more jobs... duh!).

But the jobs being created in Texas aren't keeping up with the state's expanding workforce – so during the exact same period in which it was adding all those new jobs, Texas' unemployment rate actually increased from 7.7 to 8 percent!

Or that the AZ legislature, currently stacked with tea party types, slashed the budget for the Department of Revenue, requiring the agency to fire hundreds of state auditors and tax collectors. So with the state teetering towards bankruptcy, lawmakers boasted that these measures saved $25 million. But meanwhile AZ actually lost $174 million in tax collections as a result! BTW, AZ currently receives $1.63 in federal benefits for every dollar it pays in!

But go ahead and let me know where I'm in "error" here. Although as comedian Stephen Colbert points out, "reality has a well-known liberal bias"....
 
Old 09-19-2012, 06:25 PM
 
31,708 posts, read 14,622,494 times
Reputation: 8454
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Whats left- or right-wing have to do with basic facts? Like for example that Texas' "economic miracle" was mostly because the population grew by 20 percent over the past decade, with Hispanics accounting for almost two-thirds of that growth. So a surge in people created greater demand for goods and services (which leads to more jobs... duh!).

But the jobs being created in Texas aren't keeping up with the state's expanding workforce – so during the exact same period in which it was adding all those new jobs, Texas' unemployment rate actually increased from 7.7 to 8 percent!

Or that the AZ legislature, currently stacked with tea party types, slashed the budget for the Department of Revenue, requiring the agency to fire hundreds of state auditors and tax collectors. So with the state teetering towards bankruptcy, lawmakers boasted that these measures saved $25 million. But meanwhile AZ actually lost $174 million in tax collections as a result! BTW, AZ currently receives $1.63 in federal benefits for every dollar it pays in!

Or as comedian Stephen Colbert points out, "reality has a well-known liberal bias"....
I'd hardly call it facts calling people racists for no good reason or omitting that much of the Hispanic growthrate is from illegal immigration and accounts for much of the "expanding workforce". You left out a lot of what those two articles claimed and Alternet in particular is a very leftist and biased site.
 
Old 09-19-2012, 06:45 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,304,644 times
Reputation: 6451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Do you exercise the same care and attention to the US Companies breaking laws by hiring them? Or do you just worry about the illegal immigrants laws?

If we stopped the former, wouldn't the latter be mostly corrected?
You should know me by now, are you kidding, i know a business hires illegals, i now have a number to call to investigate.

You already know in 2010 we underwent a huge remodeling and tons of additions job and another 3 car garage, with shelves, fans, skylights, and work tools.

Huge project, well the contractor thought he would get away with hiring illegals for my job, for some of the project. I knew because the idiots, could not speak good english, nor could they do the job at a passable level. We have added on before to previous homes when we were younger, infact my husband and i added on.

But illnesses and getting older, we hired this time because the project was huge.

One of the illegals to my face, practically came out and told me about the fake I.D.'S and licenses, so don't nobody tell me this stuff does not go on. He also told me that it is easy to find jobs in this Country.

Their work was not in any shape way or form, what one would call professionals, infact they ended up costing the contractor so much money, cause they had to do things over and over again.

Well i told the contractor i knew what was going on, took pictures from all of my widnows, saw him paying the guys illegally.
Next day, i had a all new american crew, checked out references and licenses, and made sure they were all legal, sad but had to be done.

When the job was almost completed, i made a phone call and told on the contractor, and about the illegal workers. As far as i know, they all ended up getting into trouble, and i got a thank you for being a Concern Citizen. As far as i know this was almost 3 yrs ago and the contractor is no longer in business, and i would proudly do it again.


Your a smart guy, it is a two way street, illegals are breaking our laws, and Companies hiring illegals, are breaking laws, and should by all means be punished.
 
Old 09-19-2012, 07:32 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,714,115 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Whats left- or right-wing have to do with basic facts? Like for example that Texas' "economic miracle" was mostly because the population grew by 20 percent over the past decade, with Hispanics accounting for almost two-thirds of that growth. So a surge in people created greater demand for goods and services (which leads to more jobs... duh!).

But the jobs being created in Texas aren't keeping up with the state's expanding workforce so during the exact same period in which it was adding all those new jobs, Texas' unemployment rate actually increased from 7.7 to 8 percent!

Or that the AZ legislature, currently stacked with tea party types, slashed the budget for the Department of Revenue, requiring the agency to fire hundreds of state auditors and tax collectors. So with the state teetering towards bankruptcy, lawmakers boasted that these measures saved $25 million. But meanwhile AZ actually lost $174 million in tax collections as a result! BTW, AZ currently receives $1.63 in federal benefits for every dollar it pays in!

But go ahead and let me know where I'm in "error" here. Although as comedian Stephen Colbert points out, "reality has a well-known liberal bias"....
The links you gave were opinions of interpreted statistics. To claim them as factual is laughable, even though they use certain facts, they spin them to their narrative, hence why they are biased.

To claim certain things from statistics is at best a guess, there are many other factors that go into why goods and services are increased. To claim it simply as a surge in population growth without also taking into account the costs, doesn't give an entirely true picture of the claim.

None of the links verify the increase in unemployment claim.

Your AZ claim doesn't coincide with the article: a top official in the department estimated that the state would miss out on $174 million in tax collections as a result. You really shouldn't exacerbate the claim. You do realize that AZ and TX both are doing things that CA has already done, right. Your claim of $1.63 per $1 can't be found.

Are you in error? Don't know, but your claims vs what your links state are.
 
Old 09-19-2012, 08:58 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,304,914 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Well obviously Mexico has a lot of other "systemic" problems to overcome first, like widespread corruption, an entrenched political party, narco-trafficking & turf wars, and the lack of a middle class (though that part is slowly improving).

While arguably we have parts of our own country that seem to be "leading" the race in the "other direction"!

Texas Is a Shining Example of Right-Wing Governance in Action and That's Why It's a Complete Basket-Case

Tea party in the Sonora: For the future of G.O.P. governance, look to Arizona
Let Mexico take care of its citizens. The US don't owe Mexico a thing except maybe returning its illegal aliens living here. Sheesh!
 
Old 09-19-2012, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,897,953 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post
I have a real job, an education and professional qualifications. My job will never be taken by an illegal immigrant.

I live in San Diego, one of America's safest cities...yet it's one of the most overcrowded with Illegals...so maybe Illegals don't cause crime or violence. Detroit does not have many Illegals, nor does East St. Louis, New Orleans or Washington DC, yet all those places are crime-ridden and violent. El Paso is even safer than San Diego and it's on the border with Juarez.

That's why Illegal Immigration is a non-issue to me.

That and the fact that immigration laws didn't exist for the first 100+ years of this nation and then were only first enacted out of racism against the Irish, Japanese, Chinese, etc.
Allow me to translate.
Point 1. I am not directly impacted so I don't care about those who are.
Point 2. I live in a safe place so I dont care about those who are victims of illegals.
You live in a safe place and yet you may still fall victim. ID theft is real. An unlicensed driver is real.
Thousands fall victim to illegals every year.
You may never be raped but you should still be concerned that they are out there. You may never be shot but as many have found out it happens and when we least suspect.
Why you and everyone should be concerned, why it should be an issue. It costs everyone something.
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