U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-06-2007, 04:36 PM
 
491 posts, read 1,291,100 times
Reputation: 83

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Well, that is not being honest in sort of meaning of the word -- maybe just lacking knowledge of Ag Math if you do not know any better -- but still not honest.

But let's say you do not know any better . . .

So I gather you have no real knowledge of the business math, but yet feel you should lend to this?
Well, we are probably talking about two different areas. I am talking about western new york, which is pretty poor and almost all of our graduates go to college and move away. Either the SMALL-TIME (almost all 50 acres or less) farmers hire illegals who will work for close to nothing, or they go out of business. Sorry you don't agree. But thats the truth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-06-2007, 04:47 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 705,862 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by oktaren View Post
Sorry to hear about your bad fortune, but to say that this only happened because of illegal immigrants is insane. i have seen stuff like this happen with american born citizens as well. some people are just crappy, whether they are illegal or legal.


to be honest, here in wny we need illegal immigrants or the fruit and vegetables won't get picked. most farmers here can't afford to pay even minimum wage to keep business going, and even so, most naturally born citizens in this area won't do that type of work anyways. so for many here its either hire illegals for under the minimum wage or close down.

i am not saying that this is only because of illegal immigrants, i have also seen american citizens doing the same thing, drinking and driving, in the past 14 years that i have lived in new mexico, i have seen a number of americans involved in deadly drunk driving accidents,gordon house, an american indian was convicted of the christmas eve deaths of a woman and her three young daughters, another man, also an american indian,was driving the wrong way down the i-40 and hit a car head on while law enforcement officials videotaped, four people died, but the drunk driver survived...in new mexico it is not unusual for a drunk driver to be a repeat offender, with anywhere from 6 to 18 prior dwi's under their belt...but in our situation, the drunk driver was an illegal immigrant, and i am sure there are other victims that have not stepped forward to tell their tales...
there is something terribly wrong with releasing an illegal immigrant who has pleaded guilty to any crime, and if you support this practice, then i say you are insane.
with all due respect, i disagree with your thinking that the vegetables and fruit would rot on the vine if illegals didnt pick the crops, do you realize how many americans are also doing this job? do you realize how many americans would gladly take the job, if they were paid a livable wage?
i do.
my parebnts and grandparents were sharecroppers, and lived in a small house with 6 children that had a dirt floor, and did this job for years...i believe that the idea that only illegals are doing this job is ludacris.
what you are doing by supporting the illegal worker is really giving into the way american workers are taken advantage of by big business, and their practice of profit....what you are doing by supporting the illegal worker is giving up on your own country...sad...but true.

though i respect your right to disagree with me, i still say illegal immigration is and has been hurting our nation in more ways than one.

and like i said, one american hurt or killed by an illegal immigrant is one too many...hope you sleep well tonight in your beliefs, and i hope you never feel the pain our family, and other families, like deputy david marsh's family, who was murdered by an illegal immigrant, or the many others who have felt our pain .
i wish you well as you live with your blinders on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2007, 04:49 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 705,862 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choctaw2 View Post
I stand behind my daughter (vivski) and her family 100% and ask everyone to please write and/or call your state reps, Not just once but as often as possible and go to the polls on election day. Help is needed in getting those elected who are truely concerned for the citizens of the USA.


thanks mom....i know you too have felt our pain...you see it everyday, and i love you for being behind me in my fight. you are the best.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2007, 04:56 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,003,319 times
Reputation: 1009
I was hospitalized for a couple of weeks due to a car accident with an illegal alien.

It was back when I lived in Sacramento. I was a passenger in a vehicle that was headed east on highway 50 in the slow lane, doing the speed limit, when an illegal alien traveling at an excessive speed in the fast lane decided he wanted to make the exit we were passing by. Without signaling, he crossed over four lanes and slammed into the front of the vehicle I was in.

The illegal alien was intoxicated, and had no license or insurance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2007, 04:58 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 705,862 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
Glad to hear your husband lived. Many friends of mine in the construction business have been hurt financially. The only one that hasn't been hurt financially has hired illegals to work his roofing business. Needless to say I dont talk to him anymore.
i am sorry you lost a friendship over this issue, but , i think we all have.
i know i have argued this point to many people who sympathize with the illegal and gladly have walked away from them.it's terrible that any american would lose financially from this issue, but it happens everyday, with some ending up bankrupt, or worse....
voting for what you believe is right is truly our only way of getting our point across to those who are in power...don't give up, there is a silver lining.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2007, 05:03 PM
 
491 posts, read 1,291,100 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivski View Post
i am not saying that this is only because of illegal immigrants, i have also seen american citizens doing the same thing, drinking and driving, in the past 14 years that i have lived in new mexico, i have seen a number of americans involved in deadly drunk driving accidents,gordon house, an american indian was convicted of the christmas eve deaths of a woman and her three young daughters, another man, also an american indian,was driving the wrong way down the i-40 and hit a car head on while law enforcement officials videotaped, four people died, but the drunk driver survived...in new mexico it is not unusual for a drunk driver to be a repeat offender, with anywhere from 6 to 18 prior dwi's under their belt...but in our situation, the drunk driver was an illegal immigrant, and i am sure there are other victims that have not stepped forward to tell their tales...
there is something terribly wrong with releasing an illegal immigrant who has pleaded guilty to any crime, and if you support this practice, then i say you are insane.
with all due respect, i disagree with your thinking that the vegetables and fruit would rot on the vine if illegals didnt pick the crops, do you realize how many americans are also doing this job? do you realize how many americans would gladly take the job, if they were paid a livable wage?
i do.
my parebnts and grandparents were sharecroppers, and lived in a small house with 6 children that had a dirt floor, and did this job for years...i believe that the idea that only illegals are doing this job is ludacris.
what you are doing by supporting the illegal worker is really giving into the way american workers are taken advantage of by big business, and their practice of profit....what you are doing by supporting the illegal worker is giving up on your own country...sad...but true.

though i respect your right to disagree with me, i still say illegal immigration is and has been hurting our nation in more ways than one.

and like i said, one american hurt or killed by an illegal immigrant is one too many...hope you sleep well tonight in your beliefs, and i hope you never feel the pain our family, and other families, like deputy david marsh's family, who was murdered by an illegal immigrant, or the many others who have felt our pain .
i wish you well as you live with your blinders on.
well, honestly i don't believe in drinking alcohol, and believe that it would be more effective to try to ban alcohol then it would be to 'ban' illegal immigrants. I am all for banning driving licenses to anyone who has had even one minor drunk and driving infraction.

for one, they are already here illegally, you don't think they would just come back, even if they were banned?


On top of that, I'm not talking about big businesses hiring illegals. There aren't big businesses here. It is a pretty rural region. And no, no one is willing to do this type of work, not for under $15 an hour, which is way too much for our small time farmers here. They aren't making a fortune, they are barely making it.
No one here is willing to do this work. In the 70s and early 80s it was almost ALL done by high school students. High school students aren't willing to do hard labor such as tying or picking grapes.

As for releasing an illegal immigrant who committed a crime, i definitely see where you are coming from there. but then again, i would say the same about a citizen who did the same. Either way, I was a human before I was an american, and I was born here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2007, 05:03 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 705,862 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
I was hospitalized for a couple of weeks due to a car accident with an illegal alien.

It was back when I lived in Sacramento. I was a passenger in a vehicle that was headed east on highway 50 in the slow lane, doing the speed limit, when an illegal alien traveling at an excessive speed in the fast lane decided he wanted to make the exit we were passing by. Without signaling, he crossed over four lanes and slammed into the front of the vehicle I was in.

The illegal alien was intoxicated, and had no license or insurance.

i'm sorry for you. it doesn't surprise me that the illegal who injured you was uninsured, because few are.
the funny thing is, like in the case of my husband, the illegal who injured him had his car registered in his name, had given proof of insurance to the mvd, but failed to keep it going after he registered his car.
our accident costed us and our insurance company over 100,000 dollars in medical costs, and even though we got a settlement after suing our automobile uninsured motorist, we ended up in a chapter 13 bankruptcy, and eventually lost our home to a foreclosure....
how's that for a kick in the pants?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2007, 05:28 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 705,862 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by oktaren View Post
well, honestly i don't believe in drinking alcohol, and believe that it would be more effective to try to ban alcohol then it would be to 'ban' illegal immigrants. I am all for banning driving licenses to anyone who has had even one minor drunk and driving infraction.

for one, they are already here illegally, you don't think they would just come back, even if they were banned?


On top of that, I'm not talking about big businesses hiring illegals. There aren't big businesses here. It is a pretty rural region. And no, no one is willing to do this type of work, not for under $15 an hour, which is way too much for our small time farmers here. They aren't making a fortune, they are barely making it.
No one here is willing to do this work. In the 70s and early 80s it was almost ALL done by high school students. High school students aren't willing to do hard labor such as tying or picking grapes.

As for releasing an illegal immigrant who committed a crime, i definitely see where you are coming from there. but then again, i would say the same about a citizen who did the same. Either way, I was a human before I was an american, and I was born here.

maybe i was a little harsh on you, i do understand the point you are trying to make.
believe me when i tell you that i do know illegals work for less money, but in doing so, they are taking away from the american citizens...as for the part about working for 15 dollars an hour, i would gladly pay the farmers more money for my tomatoes or grapes, then pay any illegal immigrants wages.
i work for 7.50 an hour in a convienence store, i sell alcohol, and know the laws about serving a drunk or intoxicated person, here in new mexico the first offense, from the gaming commission is 500 dollars, the suspension of your servers certificate, and the fine for a first offense from the city is 5000 dollars, automatic arrest, and the suspension of your servers certificate...yet the first offense for drunk driving is a maximum 90 day jail term, mandatory 48 hours in jail and an interlock device.it is a misdemeanor offense, second dwi is a misdemeanor, the third, a misdemeanor, and the fourth, a 4th degree felony, with the maximum fine of 1000 dollars.
this is crazy, is the server responsible for the accident? or the offense of dwi?
no...the driver is, yet the server is punished in a harsher way than the one who chose to drink and drive.
as for the statement that teenagers are unwilling to work in jobs like tying grapes or stuff like that, my 18 year old son works in a sheetmetal warehouse which is hard work, and dangerous at times, and he only makes 8 dollars an hour,if he had the opportunity to make more tying grapes, i bet he'd jump at the chance...i know alot of teenagers who would love to make money doing anything, but are in competition with the illegals.

we may never see eye to eye on this issue, but believe me when i tell you, i was born human too, and am still human...i sympathise with the fact that illegals are human and have needs and wants like any of us have...but they are taking away from the american public, they have chosen to come here illegallly, they ignore our laws the second they step foot into america illegally, and many continue to ignore our laws, laughing at us every minute they live here...
being here illegally is a crime, they are spitting in the faces of the thousands that are waiting patiently to come here the right way....
and anyone who does it is a criminal in my eyes....
remember, this is not a drunk driving issue, though that was the crime committed against my husband, this is an issue of illegal immigration and national security.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2007, 05:35 PM
 
491 posts, read 1,291,100 times
Reputation: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivski View Post
maybe i was a little harsh on you, i do understand the point you are trying to make.
believe me when i tell you that i do know illegals work for less money, but in doing so, they are taking away from the american citizens...as for the part about working for 15 dollars an hour, i would gladly pay the farmers more money for my tomatoes or grapes, then pay any illegal immigrants wages.
i work for 7.50 an hour in a convienence store, i sell alcohol, and know the laws about serving a drunk or intoxicated person, here in new mexico the first offense, from the gaming commission is 500 dollars, the suspension of your servers certificate, and the fine for a first offense from the city is 5000 dollars, automatic arrest, and the suspension of your servers certificate...yet the first offense for drunk driving is a maximum 90 day jail term, mandatory 48 hours in jail and an interlock device.it is a misdemeanor offense, second dwi is a misdemeanor, the third, a misdemeanor, and the fourth, a 4th degree felony, with the maximum fine of 1000 dollars.
this is crazy, is the server responsible for the accident? or the offense of dwi?
no...the driver is, yet the server is punished in a harsher way than the one who chose to drink and drive.
as for the statement that teenagers are unwilling to work in jobs like tying grapes or stuff like that, my 18 year old son works in a sheetmetal warehouse which is hard work, and dangerous at times, and he only makes 8 dollars an hour,if he had the opportunity to make more tying grapes, i bet he'd jump at the chance...i know alot of teenagers who would love to make money doing anything, but are in competition with the illegals.

we may never see eye to eye on this issue, but believe me when i tell you, i was born human too, and am still human...i sympathise with the fact that illegals are human and have needs and wants like any of us have...but they are taking away from the american public, they have chosen to come here illegallly, they ignore our laws the second they step foot into america illegally, and many continue to ignore our laws, laughing at us every minute they live here...
being here illegally is a crime, they are spitting in the faces of the thousands that are waiting patiently to come here the right way....
and anyone who does it is a criminal in my eyes....
remember, this is not a drunk driving issue, though that was the crime committed against my husband, this is an issue of illegal immigration and national security.
sorry i disagree. the farmers have tried to raise their prices to pay real workers, but they have to pay 4 to 5 times more. are you willing to pay $20 for a half gallon of grape juice?

maybe kids there are willing to work for 7 or 8 dollars an hour tying grapes, but not here. more importantly are they willing to do it for $3-4?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2007, 05:45 PM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,052,585 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by oktaren View Post
sorry i disagree. the farmers have tried to raise their prices to pay real workers, but they have to pay 4 to 5 times more. are you willing to pay $20 for a half gallon of grape juice?

maybe kids there are willing to work for 7 or 8 dollars an hour tying grapes, but not here. more importantly are they willing to do it for $3-4?
I am surprised you would be ok with any farmer paying $3-4/hr. If that was true (and I doubt it) it would indeed be slave labor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top