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Old 11-14-2007, 07:29 PM
 
491 posts, read 1,291,259 times
Reputation: 83

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
... and can't articulate a convincing rebuttal.

That's OK. It happens a lot around here.



But, just to be sure, it doesn't matter what you call something. What matters is the RESULT of that thing. If A has the same result as B, then there really is no difference between A and B except superficially.
i'm not trying to convince you of anything? im just explaining my point of view, i hope you wouldn't change your mind based on something you would read on a forum.

sorry you only care about the results, i only care about the journey.
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:44 PM
 
358 posts, read 1,786,472 times
Reputation: 170
Personally I think the argument that people should be allowed to live wherever they want, simply because people tend to migrate past and present, is ridiculous. Ever since humans existed, each human group has wanted their own location, and wanted to have some control over where they live. Not let themselves be invaded by everyone else in the world. Not only is this a natural human trait, but also necessary for good quality of life. If everyone was allowed to live wherever they want, then the entire world would become third world. Welfare would collapse, and every part of the world would consist of a small portion of rich and a huge amount of poor. Any location that has above average services and quality of life would end up being swamped by the poorest people, and bring the location down with them. If immigration is controlled and managed well, then society can flourish rather than decline from immigration. If we had no borders, then everyone from the poorest places of the world would come to the USA, and the USA would become a country similar to the poorest places of the world.

Some people seem to think that all immigrants, no matter what their background, education, history, intelligence, etc etc, will turn into regular Americans. But it is an idea that has absolutely no factual basis. I wish it was different, but sometimes the truth hurts (I'm far left politically, but I know that there is a difference between what would be ideal and what is reality - many things I have studied and learned about have disappointed me, but I'm not going to blindly ignore facts just because I find them upsetting).
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milliano View Post
Personally I think the argument that people should be allowed to live wherever they want, simply because people tend to migrate past and present, is ridiculous. Ever since humans existed, each human group has wanted their own location, and wanted to have some control over where they live. Not let themselves be invaded by everyone else in the world. Not only is this a natural human trait, but also necessary for good quality of life. If everyone was allowed to live wherever they want, then the entire world would become third world. Welfare would collapse, and every part of the world would consist of a small portion of rich and a huge amount of poor. Any location that has above average services and quality of life would end up being swamped by the poorest people, and bring the location down with them. If immigration is controlled and managed well, then society can flourish rather than decline from immigration. If we had no borders, then everyone from the poorest places of the world would come to the USA, and the USA would become a country similar to the poorest places of the world.

Some people seem to think that all immigrants, no matter what their background, education, history, intelligence, etc etc, will turn into regular Americans. But it is an idea that has absolutely no factual basis. I wish it was different, but sometimes the truth hurts (I'm far left politically, but I know that there is a difference between what would be ideal and what is reality - many things I have studied and learned about have disappointed me, but I'm not going to blindly ignore facts just because I find them upsetting).
Many self described 'Liberals' including myself; have become quite Conservative in the illegal immigrant department in recent years.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:37 AM
 
2 posts, read 1,947 times
Reputation: 11
the economy is only hurting because the gapeing whole we have with mexico,(fact)twenty billion dollars are going south of the border every year since 1989 that can be checked at irs.org. Do the math even the legal mexicans are sending 90 percent of thier i ncome home.2o billion,for 20 years that money has left our economy forever,if it was still here no bailouts or buy outs would be nessesary.The construction and road workers and welders spend the real money in this contry,and they are sitting at home because of the hord of the illeagal mexicans.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,538,721 times
Reputation: 24548
OP - I have done every one of those jobs except "bean walking" (what is bean walking?). If you want a list of jobs Americans will do try watching Mike Rove on "Dirty Jobs".

American workers will do any job that needs doing. They just won't do some at the wages offered by their fellow Americans.
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
OP - I have done every one of those jobs except "bean walking" (what is bean walking?). If you want a list of jobs Americans will do try watching Mike Rove on "Dirty Jobs".

American workers will do any job that needs doing. They just won't do some at the wages offered by their fellow Americans.
As you stated.

Or; as the economy continues to crash, those 'crap wage' jobs ain't so bad after all---------which should put more and more pressure on the illegals to leave the USA.
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,538,721 times
Reputation: 24548
WOW - You mean the collapsing economy will help us win our wage race to the bottom. That is a race I think we should lose.
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
WOW - You mean the collapsing economy will help us win our wage race to the bottom. That is a race I think we should lose.
I agree with your sentiments: that stated; if things deteriorate to the level of the early 1930's--------I hope to God that the Yuppie class is taken down a peg or two as well.
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Old 01-15-2009, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Lewisville Texas
24 posts, read 128,749 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
lawn mowing
gardening
nanny
pick fruit vegies
agriculture
walk beans
landscaping
packing house
roofing
painting
drywaller
framing/carpenter
road construction
wash dishes
cook
haul garbage
shipping/packing
factory/ assembly
laundry
houskeeping
I'm sure I missed some.hmmmmm...this list just keeps getting bigger every year, are you the next American that wont do your job?
BS. A victim of propaganda I see. Who do you think were doing these jobs before the illegals came here and ruined the wage base for everyone here in America that were doing those jobs?
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:09 PM
 
Location: USA
200 posts, read 299,298 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltine View Post
lawn mowing
gardening
nanny
pick fruit vegies
agriculture
walk beans
landscaping
packing house
roofing
painting
drywaller
framing/carpenter
road construction
wash dishes
cook
haul garbage
shipping/packing
factory/ assembly
laundry
houskeeping
I'm sure I missed some.hmmmmm...this list just keeps getting bigger every year, are you the next American that wont do your job?
Jobs that illegal aliens won't do:

Army
Navy
Air Force
Marines
Coast Guard
Border Patrol
Police Enforcement
Immigraiton Enforcement Officer (ICE)
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