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Old 10-09-2007, 07:37 PM
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785


Originally Posted by londonbarcelona View Post
Good point... They both suck. *smile*
+2 for me here

Old 10-09-2007, 09:01 PM
2,039 posts, read 5,678,077 times
Reputation: 557
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
+2 for me here
LOL, you're so funny sometimes. (((hug)))
Old 10-09-2007, 09:13 PM
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,158,301 times
Reputation: 138
Originally Posted by happymom4 View Post
What is the benefit of holding dual citizenship? I know a couple of people that do with England and Ireland...just curious. They are American though, in my eyes.
Theres really no difference.. other than if the country that you old citizenship with might draft you if it got really bad? I really don't want to fight for Mexico if they were fighting someone.
Old 10-09-2007, 09:23 PM
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Theres really no difference.. other than if the country that you old citizenship with might draft you if it got really bad? I really don't want to fight for Mexico if they were fighting someone.
You would be safe staying here in the USA-------and, if needed, you could renounce your Mexican citizenship assuming you actually have it if needed to avoid issues while visiting family, etc. SOB.

Theoretically; I may have been subject to the Hungarian draft due to my father's heritage------if I were a resident of Hungary. It would have been interesting though; I speak only English and was born/raised here in the USA.
Old 10-09-2007, 09:30 PM
Location: Sacramento
13,755 posts, read 23,220,542 times
Reputation: 6092
If the discussion is about anything other than the topic, I'll take it that the discussion is finished and the thread can be closed.

If you want to discuss the topic, fine. Otherwise, move on to a different subject you find of interest.
Old 10-09-2007, 10:50 PM
3,424 posts, read 5,088,829 times
Reputation: 1814
Originally Posted by Bunky39 View Post
nobody said nothin bout immigrants (legal ones) it was the cutting in line that was the issue.
stephen s
san diego ca
no one said anything.....And I mean anything about immigrants...we are talking about criminals who broke the law...they're called ILLEGAL immigrants....please dont start trying to slide that "immigrant/undocumented citizens" crap into the fray...they are not immigrants they are transients who are here illegally...

you (not you Bunky but the original poster of this thread), tell me whats wrong with someone who trashes out their own home nextdoor, and then sneaks into your house, eats all your food, runs up electric and water bills, goes to hospitals for medical needs at your expense, not to mention kills someone while drunk driving or in some other capacity...(obviously that only applies to some, NOT all illegals), and refuses to adopt the language you speak in your household,

so you must now pay for supplies to relabel everything in your house with the translation of another language so that person can understand...but oh yeah..its aye ok because they picked a couple of tomatoes huh?..without those tomatoes they might not have been able to compensate for all those expenses huh?...plus, after all he's in your house now so theres no point in trying to kick him out of your house...just gotta find a way to make him a permenant resident of your home because **lights dim as worlds softest violin music starts** hes "SUCH" a hardworking tomato picker, despite the fact that other people have been begging and applying to be your roomate for years, the legal way.? If you find nothing wrong with this scenario and if you still have that bleeding heart you claim to have, then you need to take these 20 million non tax paying illegals that we have in this country into your home and let them become your burden..because people like me are looking for a solution to this dilemma...

Last edited by solytaire; 10-10-2007 at 12:18 AM..
Old 10-09-2007, 11:52 PM
3,424 posts, read 5,088,829 times
Reputation: 1814
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
1. Illegal Immigrants help fund Social Security
2. They provide a low-cost solution to help Americans for our love for cheap stuff
3. Major contributors to the agricultural sector of the economy (which happens to be huge)

What bad are they doing? Bad in the blue collar American's opinion because they didn't take hold of their education and get a better job. We all have the same chance at getting the best education. Now they're sitting at their computer all butt hurt ranting about how miserable they are because they were replaced with a cheaper solution.

1) They consume nearly 3 times as much in public resources & welfare as they pay to Social Security. Your point is virtually moot.

2) you're right, they will work for damn near free...which often violates minimum wage laws, and drives wages lower for legal U.S. workers/citizens. And people are sitting on their butts ranting so YOU wont have to sit on your butt ...at your "high income tech job" and rant in the future. when YOU get replaced by a "cheaper solution" ..because, (and you dont realize this since you arent yet truly in the workforce fulltime, I presume.), cheaper is cheaper. A cheaper engineer is as coveted to a corporation as a cheaper blue collar worker is to a Farmer or Horticulturalist. So dont be so sure of your future job security just because you think ull be a "white collar" worker. Because your job can be outsourced for "a cheaper solution" also. Easily.

3) They contribute as much to the agricultural sector as any child who picks peas, collects a check, and has no taxes taken out for them. Lets not forget that oh so invaluable little contribution of E. Coli that they seem to have been making to the agricultural sector as of late also. Oh yea, if their gonna take credit for the prosperity of the "agricultural sector" they can also take the blame when something goes wrong and millions of dollars worth of product is recalled, due to workers having strains of e. coli on their hands when making those contributions

and Ill just add these for good measure

4) They drive drunk, cause wrecks and have no insurance (because they are illegal) and have no means of compensating for the damages they have cause to other motorists...and since you got me wired up here..

5) the newest burden they are creating on tax payers is: they are filing lawsuits left and right for LAWS THAT DONT EVEN PROTECT THEM AS ILLEGAL ALIENS...yet another consumption of public resources and time that could be allotted to Legal Residents who have substantial legal suits to file.

- I wont even list the drug cartels causing hell on this side of the U.S. border, nor the prospect of foreign born terrorists that could so easily hide among these "hardworking undocumented workers" / Illegal aliens.

Nor will I mention that Illegal Immigrants are aiding in the rapid overcrowding of our jails & schools...and SURE I could go into how NOT ALL Americans have always had access to equal education, and how some peoples and ethnic groups (including some European Immigrants hailing from poorer socio economic standing) were systematically denied access to equal education until circa 1960, and how in part because of this, those ethnic groups have not always had access to white collar jobs and have long been an underclass in this society and thus have NEEDED those measily "blue collar jobs" you speak so highly of when illegal immigrants take them. Racism?..hmm, I dont know

I will refrain from mentioning any of those things as this list could easily stretch into the hundreds..so no need to go there, I didnt come here to victimize nor demonize any majority or minority group...I would just like someone to show me how illegals offset these concerns...and for the record saying crap like: "well Americans drive drunk and kill people...etc." doesnt count. The question is: "what bad do illegal immigrants do?"...I've stated a few, among many, of the bad things...so tell me something, tic for tac that offsets or counters the negatives.

Last edited by solytaire; 10-10-2007 at 12:28 AM..
Old 10-09-2007, 11:58 PM
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,415,357 times
Reputation: 47455
Originally Posted by theimmigrant View Post
To the people who believe that immigrants are ruining America,( by not paying taxes, taking jobs from Americans, going to the hospital because they are sick, or just trying to find a better life, etc). - How about the ones trying to make a difference in their country, or paying taxes, or helping the American people? Well, how come not many see the difference in this, and just lump us all together in one category? Those of you who are against immigrants should realize that we are not all the same, but a group of people with different perspectives. By the way, just because we are immigrants does not mean out life goal is to become your nanny or gardener.
not to worry. just like the girls i have dated, when i run out of money they lose interest.
ps by the way, nothing wrong with immigration at all, its the cutting in line that is the issue.
stephen s
san diego ca
Old 10-10-2007, 12:13 AM
1,352 posts, read 4,158,471 times
Reputation: 570
Now they're comparing deportation to the Holocaust .

Forced deportation of millions of people would be a ''humanitarian nightmare" akin to the Holocaust and cost an estimated $92 billion, said Brito, a scholar with the James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy at Rice University.

''It'd be like Nazi Germany — putting people in cattle cars and moving them out of the country," he said.
Duo calls for 'humane' immigrant solution | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle (broken link)

Last edited by NewToCA; 10-10-2007 at 07:34 AM.. Reason: language
Old 10-10-2007, 01:06 AM
3,424 posts, read 5,088,829 times
Reputation: 1814
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Actually.. The people who use the welfare system are White..
Source: People on welfare are usually black, teenage mothers who stay on ten years at a time
White 38.8%
Black 37.2
Hispanic 17.8
Asian 2.8
Other 3.4

I'm not acknowledging that Illegal immigration is a good thing. I know coming to this country is illegal but its so necessary. We couldn't function as a society with out it. Who else will pick our fruit for little money?
Illegal immigration is not necessary...immigration is. We could easily function as a society without the agricultural production from illegals; as people will do as they've always done in this capitalist nation A) Invent an uber efficient machine in the absence of cheap labor, and obtain a patent, and be wealthy (think Cotton Gin). The cost of operating these machines (fuel, maintenance, storage, manpower, etc.) would be VASTLY offset by the relief of strain on our public services & welfare resources formerly caused by non taxpaying illegals...

And we cant deport 12+ million people because people keep saying we can't. This is honestly the first time I have ever heard Americans SO adamant that something is "just too unrealistic" or "It would just be too hard" and cant be done.

What cant be done, is to allow such a grotesque miscarriage of U.S. law and punish those who have tried to adhere to our laws by allowing them to be overlooked, and stepped over by criminals. (I call them criminals because either something is against the law or it isnt..if not following the proper procedures to immigrate into the U.S. is illegal, then anyone who delineates from that procedure is a criminal in my book).

What cant be done is to expect 12+ million former pea pickers & new voters to pay a multi thousand dollar fine for backed taxes after being granted amnesty. If anyone thinks that is anymore realistic or enforceable than deporting those 12+ million then that person is delusional.

If anything they'll galvanize much like they have already done, and just elect the first official who panders to them and promises to wave the fine for "America's newest citizens".

We can tear out halfway around the world and build a new nation and throw all kinds of "baddies" out of their countries, but we can't (I mean we just cant muster up the strength nor finances in our little bleeding hearts...according to many of you) to control who inundates and stays in our own country at our own peril. Thats the most backward thing I have ever heard.

And if we are going to start devising ways for illegals to obtain legal status, we may as well, abolish punishment for anyone in prison for white collar crime. After all, the crime has already been committed right? No point in crying over spilled milk right? What we would have to do is make a way for them to stay free and just pay a fine, because they were hardworking. Plus its not like they were just some low wage blue collar worker...I mean, we arent going to be able to get the thousands of people who commit white collar crime each year rounded up to go to prison. I mean thats just unrealistic and it would be WAAAAYYY to hard to enforce right? And after, all why should we? I mean if you're going to give one group of criminals an alternative to being punished by jailtime or the equivalent of that enforcement for illegals (deportation), you're going to have to make it an equal barter for all minor criminals...lest we start down the road of lawsuits again...right?

Last edited by solytaire; 10-10-2007 at 01:17 AM..
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