U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-12-2010, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,665,827 times
Reputation: 3785

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
Alright, so we have this: - So we know that there is a significant contributing effect towards identity theft -- Report Indicates Illegal Immigration Contributes to ID Theft

But another question is - do the illegals who are using those numbers know that the numbers they have belong to still-living people? Do they know that any actions they take will harm the taxation statuses of those people?

Governments should increase penalties on illegals who use SSNs of living people - hopefully that means that if illegals do try to get fake employment, it will be with an SSN of a dead person or a non-existent number, which means social security gets free money and other people don't have their credit ratings ruined
Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Such crimes will land an American in Federal prison..........why should illegal aliens being treated more leniently?

 
Old 03-12-2010, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,908,828 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Such crimes will land an American in Federal prison..........why should illegal aliens being treated more leniently?
Furthermore does anyone actually believe that an illegal pauses to consider if that SSN is someones already? Do they even care?
No more so than a car thief worries about whose car they are stealing or how important it is to the actual owner.
 
Old 03-12-2010, 05:11 PM
 
4,302 posts, read 7,909,737 times
Reputation: 1562
But the law does treat people differently if people knowingly commit an act versus people who do it unknowingly or unintentionally - For instance negligent homicide is treated not as severely as premeditated murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Such crimes will land an American in Federal prison..........why should illegal aliens being treated more leniently?
I would imagine that the people selling the fake IDs with the fake SNN know more about it, and therefore have the higher burden of penalties or punishments. I would imagine that at least some of the illegals do not comprehend the gravity of what their actions would do to someone's credit score (since many illegals are uneducated on these matters). The burden of guilt falls moreso on the people who know about the real gravity of the situation. The law structure should convince those people to seek out SSNs of dead or non-existent people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Furthermore does anyone actually believe that an illegal pauses to consider if that SSN is someones already? Do they even care?
No more so than a car thief worries about whose car they are stealing or how important it is to the actual owner.
 
Old 03-12-2010, 05:14 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,164,328 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
Alright, so we have this: - So we know that there is a significant contributing effect towards identity theft -- Report Indicates Illegal Immigration Contributes to ID Theft

But another question is - do the illegals who are using those numbers know that the numbers they have belong to still-living people? Do they know that any actions they take will harm the taxation statuses of those people?

Governments should increase penalties on illegals who use SSNs of living people - hopefully that means that if illegals do try to get fake employment, it will be with an SSN of a dead person or a non-existent number, which means social security gets free money and other people don't have their credit ratings ruined
I believe that whether or not someone uses a live person's SS number or a dead person's or a fake one that it is still considered to be the same crime, isn't it?
 
Old 03-12-2010, 05:16 PM
 
4,302 posts, read 7,909,737 times
Reputation: 1562
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I believe that whether or not someone uses a live person's SS number or a dead person's or a fake one that it is still considered to be the same crime, isn't it?
But the implications are much worse if the person with the SSN is still alive - The identity theft can cause the person's credit score to be ruined - But if the person is dead or if the person does not exist, there is no credit score to be ruined.
 
Old 03-12-2010, 05:19 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,164,328 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
But the implications are much worse if the person with the SSN is still alive - The identity theft can cause the person's credit score to be ruined - But if the person is dead or if the person does not exist, there is no credit score to be ruined.
Well of course it is much worse but I am just talking about the initial crime itself of using an SS number that doesn't belong to them.
 
Old 03-12-2010, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,831,384 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman View Post
But the implications are much worse if the person with the SSN is still alive - The identity theft can cause the person's credit score to be ruined - But if the person is dead or if the person does not exist, there is no credit score to be ruined.
Not true.

Quote:
Although the deceased will obviously not pay back fraudulent expenses or be held libel for open accounts, their surviving family members will be – especially if they are listed as a joint account holder.

In many cases, if surviving relatives notice fraudulent activity happening, they can get matters cleared up by presenting a death certificate. In other cases, a death certificate may not be enough. The deceased relatives may get stuck with the debt and a fight to clear their name if more than one person is listed. Surviving relatives – especially spouses - can be open to serious financial repercussions.
Identity theft after death

Also, that “fake” SSN may eventually be assigned to a “real” person. Their credit can be destroyed before they are even born.

When illegal aliens use a fake SSN or steal an identity, they may not realize the full extent of their actions, but they DO realize they are involved in an act of fraud. It is not a victimless crime, and the perpetrators should be punished.
 
Old 03-12-2010, 11:27 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,030,719 times
Reputation: 2382
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Well of course it is much worse but I am just talking about the initial crime itself of using an SS number that doesn't belong to them.
This is it in a nutshell!
Illegals KNOW they are using a SSN that DOES NOT belong to them. THAT is a crime all by itself.
It shouldn't matter whose card is used.
 
Old 03-13-2010, 08:01 AM
 
1,474 posts, read 2,018,632 times
Reputation: 457
Well, this is certainly a res erection of an ancient thread.

I believe I gave my response to the original OP (thread author now LONG gone as a troll) and I cant really belieive my answer would be much different with the caveat that the implosion of state and local governments financial resources, state by state are now being directly and indirectly linked to various subsides of tax money to support various ILLEGAL aleins programs.

Since this thread has begun, numerous states have begun to awake to the vast drain on public resources, justifiably set aside for LEGAL Americans. and they have begun to cut accordingly....................

So..................with the financial carnage being seen across the country how can anyone still argue the position that the illegals arent causing a problem................beside the colonization of significant portions of this OUR country............
 
Old 03-16-2010, 08:24 PM
 
4,302 posts, read 7,909,737 times
Reputation: 1562
Ah, so a person who recently died who has his or her SSN used that way encounters trouble too, due to issues related to debts and inheritances. If a person who died in 1946 had his number used, then there wouldn't be as much of a problem as, say, if a person who died in 2007 had his number used.

In regards to "fake" SSNs being assigned to people being born, wouldn't the Social Security Administration look over any numbers being assigned to see if there was already activity on those numbers? It would seem like bad form for the Social Security Administration to assign a number that was already used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Not true.


Identity theft after death

Also, that “fake” SSN may eventually be assigned to a “real” person. Their credit can be destroyed before they are even born.

When illegal aliens use a fake SSN or steal an identity, they may not realize the full extent of their actions, but they DO realize they are involved in an act of fraud. It is not a victimless crime, and the perpetrators should be punished.
It does matter in regards to the effects on other people, and as Benicar pointed out, the effects can also be bad if a person who recently died has his or her SSN used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
This is it in a nutshell!
Illegals KNOW they are using a SSN that DOES NOT belong to them. THAT is a crime all by itself.
It shouldn't matter whose card is used.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top