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Old 10-08-2007, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroGuy View Post
It would be great if we could go back to pre-1965 immigration laws!
DITTO!!!

 
Old 10-08-2007, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
Let me see if I understand this...

I think what theimmigrant is trying to say, is that no ALL people immigrating to the US lives on wellfare, pays no taxes or are disgraceful to the American people. People are individualists and should not all be lumped together into one group, which has already been done in this thread alone.
The subject has not been touched in the way desired in this thread. The OP tried to make a point, that would maybe engage people in a discussion seen from another point of view/angle, but failed, since again, as always - the thread is now only about illegal immigration and that ALL illegals are bad and disgraceful and pays no taxes.

You are talking about atleast 12 million people here, but no one seems to realize this.

Take 12 million average Americans and join that group yourself with your family and friends. Are you all the same? Aren't you an individual? If I have a bad encounter with an American- can I say you are just as horrible?
When visiting London this summer, I went to the Towern. This is to anyone from a European country a place where you show respect. It's old, and it's Royal. Royalties are people who are going to be treated with respect, period. In a castle, you move and whisper as if you were in a church. That is how important Royalties and history are to us.
You can spot an American in a European croud without any trouble- they are yelling, talking loudly, being disrespectful, you name it.
And you are all the same.
Get my point? Are you like that, just because YOU are an American?
I say ALL American tourists are obnoxious, loud and disrespectful. Do you agree? Is that really you, or is it just MY view of an entire people of 300 million, based on a small sample of Americans?

I've been to Alaska. Are you all like Alaskans?

Yes, people are influenced by nature and nurture, but we are still individualists. Are you the same as your siblings? I know I'm not. And yet we are brought up the same way.

It's called social psychology. The environment that we are in affects how we behave at that moment. If this was the relationship forum, would you start talking negative about immigrants? No, but you have no problem doing so in THIS particular forum. Why is this? Because that's the purpose of this forum- to discuss immigration, and that's what OTHER PEOPLE are doing here too. You are not alone, this is how OTHER PEOPLE behave here.
You say hispanic immigrants are bad, because it's how they are as a group and just proves how much they disrespect the US.
Then think about the attitude towards them. Is it positive? Do they feel like YOU respect them? Do they feel judged based on what they look like and not what they are as individuals? You don't know who is an illegal and who is an legal immigrant by just looking at someone, yet you say, repeatedly that it was an illegal that once spat on you.
Now put yourself in that position. You are an American, and looks like an American, and you are in a crowd with other people who are not Americans and do not like Americans, because one once spat on them. You might be a really nice person, and you may not be what these people consider to be an average American, yet you are judged based on that scheme. Is that fair? Wouldn't you react negatively if someone judged you based on your looks and origin?
In school, would you have liked it if your teacher graded you based on what other people looking like you in your age had performed?

There are 9 million people in Sweden. We are not all the same.
There are some thousand people in jail in Sweden. They all have in common that they are criminals, but they are not the same. Some made something truly horrible and don't regret it and don't do anything to try do make it any better. But some, who also made something just as bad, are trying to make things better, and when given the chance, they will make life better for others.
Same with illegals. Some are bad, some are good. But they are in no way all the same. And some pay taxes, makes life better for others.

And all immigrants aren't living on wellfare or being disrespectful. Not all hispanic immigrants want the US to come under their rule.
They are individuals just as everyone of you.

You are talking about homes and countries, but when are you going to realize that you are talking about individuals, and not some numbers in a statistical report?

Don't we all know that statistics lie?
Sweden:

Till you personally visit states like Arizona, etc. you really do not have a true preception of what illegals are doing to my country; courtesy of our cowardly government, we have to live with them---------not you!

You have the option of returning home to Sweden if the dung hits the fan; remember that.
 
Old 10-08-2007, 08:41 AM
 
1,408 posts, read 4,372,096 times
Reputation: 469
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
A country is in many respects the "home" of those who are citizens. They feel a proprietary interest in their country, just as anyone would feel toward his own home. If you want to get along with a person- ANY person I've ever met, in ANY country--- you don't barge into his home, shove your way past the family, and proceed to sit down make yourself at home. This would cause instant hostility almost anywhere. If you want to be accepted, you knock at the door--greet the person inside---and enter when you are invited in. Normally, at that point, you'll be given a warm and hospitable welcome. If not, you leave. That's how to get along with people in their home.

Countries are somewhat the same as homes. Sneak in, make yourself at home, disrespect the residents, and begin loudly demanding all sorts of rights and privileges, and you'll probably be met with hostility. Go through the proper procedures, enter legally, and show a bit of respect, and you'll be welcomed warmly, at least in this country.

It amazes me how this simple analogy seems to mystify so many people. It's really not a bit difficult to understand, yet some of the most brilliant minds in government just don't seem to "get it"....
Well it's crystal-clear to me! Thanks so much for this thoughtful and superbly well-reasoned analogy
 
Old 10-08-2007, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,690,837 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
It's not about who can stay or not. It's about not keep saying that ALL illegals are the same. It has nothing to do with deportation in this case. That is not what it is about in this thread. It is about attitudes.

The OP didn't want to talk about immigration-laws or what to do with immigrants here, based on the info he/she gave in the thread starter. He/She wanted to discuss the attitudes against immigrants. Please read what he/she said and discuss that instead of discussing what you always discuss in other threads that concerns that. Read what the OP said instead of posting the same posts you've already posted in other threads. We know you don't want illegals in the US, ok. I agree. But can we now, in this thread, discuss another thing in this matter.
The subject about immigrants are not just about illegals that have to get out of the country. It is also about legals, and even about the illegals. Let's all agree they should leave the country and come back legally. Now, we've already said that.
Can we now please leave that sub-subject and discuss another part of it?
Well first of all dont tell me what I can and cannot post.

And second the OP asked why immigrants are all lumped into one. They are not, illegals are illegals regardless of what they do here or where they have come from. And Legals are here legally, welcomed by us and are a contibuting part of our country.. I dont lump them together. All immigrants are not hurting America.
 
Old 10-08-2007, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska (most of the time)
1,222 posts, read 3,285,738 times
Reputation: 1881
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Sweden:

Till you personally visit states like Arizona, etc. you really do not have a true preception of what illegals are doing to my country; courtesy of our cowardly government, we have to live with them---------not you!

You have the option of returning home to Sweden if the dung hits the fan; remember that.
This is the attitude I am trying to talk about. It's your country. I am just from Sweden.
People here claim to have read my posts, yet no one has picked up the fact that I am engaged to an American and am moving to the US next year. And you expect me to believe that you are so aware of what is going on everywhere in your country?
It's your country. It is such an honor to get a US-citizenship.
Lucky you I know not all Americans are like you. I know you are all individuals, and therefor I will not judge you all based on the people on this forum.
If I had been like you, judging people without knowing them, then trust me, I would never even had wanted to know the US existed. I would have been too terrified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
And second the OP asked why immigrants are all lumped into one. They are not, illegals are illegals regardless of what they do here or where they have come from. And Legals are here legally, welcomed by us and are a contibuting part of our country.. I dont lump them together. All immigrants are not hurting America.
That is, per definition, lumping a group of people together.
How do you know that the people you meet on the street, doing something bad, are legals or illegals? How do you know when you meet someone who spits on you, wether this person is illegal or not. You think this person is illegal, based on the fact that the person did something you didn't like. That is what the OP wanted to point out, IMO. And yet he/she didn't, since the post is about immigration - nothing has been said about legal or illegal. It's about the attitude against immigrants.
Yes! ALL ILLEGALS ARE ILLEGALS! We know that! Come on, say something new! People here don't say illegal immigration is ok, so don't keep saying we do. Respond to our posts and not to what YOU think we should think just because we don't agree with you on one thing.

Last edited by Sweden; 10-08-2007 at 09:08 AM..
 
Old 10-08-2007, 08:51 AM
 
1,408 posts, read 4,372,096 times
Reputation: 469
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimmigrant View Post
To the people who believe that immigrants are ruining America...
Immigrants are, by definition, people who come to America with the intent joining our country and our culture—i.e. becoming Americans themselves. Immigrants follow the prescribed process and play by the rules.

The people at center of these current debates—those sneaking across our southern border—are not immigrants. They are lawbreakers. And what's worse, demonstrations like this...



...only go to show that the people coming here have NO intention of assimilating

So bottom line: Immigrants are welcome in the USA. Poachers need to go home!
 
Old 10-08-2007, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
3,589 posts, read 2,971,445 times
Reputation: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
This is the attitude I am trying to talk about. It's your country. I am just from Sweden.
People here claim to have read my posts, yet no one has picked up the fact that I am engaged to an American and am moving to the US next year. And you expect me to believe that you are so aware of what is going on everywhere in your country?
It's your country. It is such an honor to get a US-citizenship.
Lucky you I know not all Americans are like you. I know you are all individuals, and therefor I will not judge you all based on the people on this forum.
If I had been like you, judging people without knowing them, then trust me, I would never even had wanted to know the US existed. I would have been too terrified.
B-O-O-H-O-O, we're so scary! I don't think anyone here really cares why you're coming to the USA...as long as you do it legally.

Quote:
That is, per definition, lumping a group of people together.
How do you know that the people you meet on the street, doing something bad, are legals or illegals? How do you know when you meet someone who spits on you, wether this person is illegal or not. You think this person is illegal, based on the fact that the person did something you didn't like. That is what the OP wanted to point out, IMO. And yet he/she didn't, since the post is about immigration - nothing has been said about legal or illegal. It's about the attitude against immigrants.
That's the assumption you are making after reading the opinions of a handful of people on a message board. Having lived in both Europe and the USA, I have to burst your bubble on this one...we are FAR more accepting of immigrants than Europeans are.

Quote:
Yes! ALL ILLEGALS ARE ILLEGALS! We know that! Come on, say something new! People here don't say illegal immigration is ok, so don't keep saying we do. Respond to our posts and not to what YOU think we should think just because we don't agree with you on one thing.
What is it that you wanted addressed that was not addressed? What is your point?
 
Old 10-08-2007, 11:01 AM
 
Location: NM
402 posts, read 938,055 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Respond to our posts and not to what YOU think we should think just because we don't agree with you on one thing.

Good advise to follow,,, including yourself. At the age of 18, you have a lot to learn and believe me, when you do make your way to the USA you are going to be learning what most everyone here is talking about. I don't know where you are getting all your information, One thing is sure it is not first hand info. You are not living next door to the situations that face all of us everyday here in USA.
 
Old 10-08-2007, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska (most of the time)
1,222 posts, read 3,285,738 times
Reputation: 1881
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeDallasite View Post
B-O-O-H-O-O, we're so scary! I don't think anyone here really cares why you're coming to the USA...as long as you do it legally.
Read the other posts here on this forum and even on this thread. Yes, people would mind, because "too many people immigrate to the US already, there needs to be a restaraint and the laws should be those of pre-1960". That is not a word-to-word quote, it is a compiled version of what has been said by numerous posters.

This is a very good example as to why it is so hard to discuss with you:
I try to use rationell thinking and putting things in perspective.
You ridicule me and use the same arguments as always with just a new phrasing.


If you are going to quote someone, read the post and try to understand what the poster is saying. Don't just assume you know. Respond to arguments instead of just ridiculing people who disagree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeDallasite View Post
That's the assumption you are making after reading the opinions of a handful of people on a message board. Having lived in both Europe and the USA, I have to burst your bubble on this one...we are FAR more accepting of immigrants than Europeans are.
No. You have not lived in Europe, you have lived in the UK, and if you cannot even make that distinction, you cannot say that you have even comprehended what we are about. Take a European and ask that person if he/she is a European or French, English, Irish, Danish, Swedish, Croatian, Russian, Greek, Italian, etc, and you'll notice that that person will NOT say he/she is an European. He'll/She'll say he/she is a Dane, a Briton, a German, a Swede etc. We are Europeans just like you are North Americans.
Europe is a continent, not a country.
Why do you think we fight? Because we are different people in different countries. We are not a homogene country/people, so we do not act, think, react etc the same.
You were in the UK. You say you didn't feel like you belonged there and you longed to come home to the US. Well, you clearly missed the fact that Britons are known to be reserved and very formal. Guess what, that's what we are like in northern countries in old cultures. It's common practice, but when you get to know us, by trying to assimilate, you get to know us and realizes that we are only shy on the outside but just as outgoing as you are when we feel comfortable and are around people we know.

You cannot say that Americans are FAR more tolerant of immigrants than Europe is, since there is no homogene Europe. Don't mix in Sweden, Norway, France, Spain, Italy, Slovenia, Poland, Germany, Latvia, Belarus or the rest of the 47 countries here, because you have not been here. You have not lived here. You based your judgment on the entire continent on the respons YOU got from living in the UK - from the posts I've read where you have talked about this, it doesn't seem to me that you tried to assimilate. Of course, I don't know you nor how you acted when living there, so I won't say this is the case. That is just the impression one gets.
And that is the same thing as you judging people based on what they look like. Just because they are hispanic-looking and spitting on you doesn't mean that they are illegal. Just because one is illegal doesn't mean one doesn't pay taxes.

In perspective:
How does YOU not trying to assimilate differ ANY from others not trying to assimialte to the US, other than that what YOU do is ok, because you know WHY you didn't do it and can justify it?

Because that is what this is about: no one even wants to see the other side's point of view. You can justify what you do, but you refuse to do the same for others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeDallasite View Post
What is it that you wanted addressed that was not addressed? What is your point?
Please read my post again. Then re-read it and try to understand what I am trying to say. Try to read it as if I had written it (which I have) and not as if you had written it. It is from MY perspective, and so try to put yourself in MY chair and see what I see. It's about reading and comprehension.
Clarification: The "we" are the people on this forum who disagree with you and doesn't join the hate-train. The ones you guys call trolls etc.

This discussion is useless if you continue to quote someone without reading and atleast trying to understand what the other person is trying to say. Respond to arguments with ARGUMENTS!

FYI: This post is not directed to ONE person. I am addressing all posters whom this may concern. The "you" used is meant as a "you all", but due to the English langauge lack of words that differs one you from several you, I am bound to use the videly misunderstood "you".
 
Old 10-08-2007, 11:16 AM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,136,734 times
Reputation: 1436
Sweden,

How long have you lived in the US?
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