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Old 10-08-2007, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,700,150 times
Reputation: 2086

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
Like I have said- I used the same origins to collect "facts" as you have about immigrants. I am wrong, yet you are right.

We are discussing what YOU THINK, without facts, yet ME doing the same as YOU is incorrect. I most use hard core facts, whilst you can rely on hearsay and personal encounters.

I am responding in the same way as you are. So what I say, you say. I agree what I say sounds harsh, but so does what you say about "Europeans" to me.
Perspective, people.

Don't list what you know. Read what I have already said about that. That is my opinion, and from what you also post, so is yours.

Let's discuss the OP's topic. This is de-railing and off-topic.
I never said anything about Europeans. You are the one basically telling us how stupid and violent we are. I never said you were wrong and I was right. You keep stating these are facts, I am still waiting for them. I have posted numerous numerous statistics and factual data from a number or sources, search and you shall find. Now I am waiting for yours. Please post the fact about Americans being all that you say and not just your opinion.. I dont pretend to know about Sweden and I would never post facts about it unless I had data to back it up. You claim to know all about us and what is happening here, so I respectfully ask you post those documented facts. And I have already discussed the OP's topic.

 
Old 10-08-2007, 03:49 PM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,054,487 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
Like I have said- I used the same origins to collect "facts" as you have about immigrants. I am wrong, yet you are right.

[b]We are discussing what YOU THINK, without facts, yet ME doing the same as YOU is incorrect. I most use hard core facts, whilst you can rely on hearsay and personal encounters.[/B]

So you do not see personal encounters as hard core facts? I would think an actual encounter is about as hard core as it gets.

As one of our new immigrants you have displayed an arrogance or superiority to Americans in many of your posts. This is a prime example of what American citizens are getting sick of. What are we to think of you? This is not a personal attack but I am truely interested in how you expect Americans to respond to you.
 
Old 10-08-2007, 03:57 PM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,021,329 times
Reputation: 1788
Sweden, you proffer a great many contentious claims, which is why replies to you tend to be slightly combatitive. I'm even roused to try. Age 18 is wonderful, open-minded, its most attractive, fresh from a lifetime of education and totally lacking in real life experience.

You've never owned real estate or similar property, one's major investment in life, which is irreparably damaged by mean-spirited illegals who have no respect for any laws. You've never lost jobs, entry-level or not, to mean-spirited illegals who undercut all wages by being paid under the table. Heck, you've probably never even lived without socialized medicine, and have no idea what it's like to not be able to afford needed emergency treatment but see illegals sopping up free medical services that you, the tax-paying citizen, will never receive. I myself was ambulanced from a car crash (caused, I later learned, by an illegal driving without a license) and could hear my drivers yelling to dispatchers about which hospital emergency room could even take me at all (in Los Angeles, home to 300 illegals arriving daily, the ERs are full of illegals with minor complaints taking advantage of the system.)

A hint to your understanding of sociology: when people agree upon having the same experiences over and over and over and over again, you might consider this confirmation. City-data is set up to be a forum of personal observation, as it discourages the placement of copywritten material. The inundation of illegals hurts us personally in our everyday, quality of life issues. This isn't abstract theory to us Americans: it is a living nightmare. No one here is a hater: we are beleaguered, put upon, tax-paying, middle class Americans who have been told by our own government that law-breaking illegals matter more to them than American citizens. We welcome you, Sweden, the legal immigrant. You are a smart person, superb in your understanding and usage of English. I'm sure you'll figure it out when you get here and see for yourself.
 
Old 10-08-2007, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska (most of the time)
1,222 posts, read 3,287,594 times
Reputation: 1881
Quote:
Originally Posted by citigirl View Post
So you do not see personal encounters as hard core facts? I would think an actual encounter is about as hard core as it gets.
Then I am right. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citigirl View Post
As one of our new immigrants you have displayed an arrogance or superiority to Americans in many of your posts. This is a prime example of what American citizens are getting sick of. What are we to think of you? This is not a personal attack but I am truely interested in how you expect Americans to respond to you.
The arrogance or superiority that I may have shown is the same as I have been given. I have responded to what was being given to me. You were condescending, I responded the same way.

I agree I can have been seen as arrogant if you do the same. The rest of the world is sick of the arrogant Americans coming to our countries deciding what is right or wrong. Look at the Arab world. Look at your allies. Look at the people demonstrating on the street of European countries. Talk to people from outside the US.
This IS how we feel, because we feel we are looked down on by you. We feel like this, you cannot disagree with that. WE feel like this. And that you cannot say anything about, because you are not us.

I do not feel superior. I do not. Don't say I do, because then I can say that you seem to feel superior to us.
We have used the same arguments on this but with different "you"'s. If I am like this, then so are you. That, is a fact.

Back to topic:
In what way are legal immigrants ruining the country? Legal immigrants, trying to assimilate and doing everything right? Are they really ruining the country?

Last edited by Sweden; 10-08-2007 at 04:19 PM..
 
Old 10-08-2007, 04:05 PM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,054,487 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
Then I am right. Thank you.

As one of our new immigrants you have displayed an arrogance or superiority to Americans in many of your posts. This is a prime example of what American citizens are getting sick of. What are we to think of you? This is not a personal attack but I am truely interested in how you expect Americans to respond to you.
The arrogance or superiority that I may have shown is the same as I have been given. I have responded to what was being given to me. You were condescending, I responded the same way.

I agree I can have been seen as arrogant if you do the same. The rest of the world is sick of the arrogant Americans coming to our countries deciding what is right or wrong. Look at the Arab world. Look at your allies. Look at the people demonstrating on the street of European countries. Talk to people from outside the US.
This IS how we feel, because we feel we are looked down on by you. We feel like this, you cannot disagree with that. WE feel like this. And that you cannot say anything about, because you are not us.

I do not feel superior. I do not. Don't say I do, because then I can say that you seem to feel superior to us.
We have used the same arguments on this but with different "you"'s. If I am like this, then so are you. That, is a fact.

Back to topic:
In what way are legal immigrants ruining the country? Legal immigrants, trying to assimilate and doing everything right? Are they really ruining the country?[/quote]

Absolutely immigrants are ruining this country and many examples have been posted!
 
Old 10-08-2007, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska (most of the time)
1,222 posts, read 3,287,594 times
Reputation: 1881
Quote:
Originally Posted by citigirl View Post
Absolutely immigrants are ruining this country and many examples have been posted!
I am getting tired of this. What law-abiding, legal immigrant, trying to assimilate is ruining what country? That is what I wrote and what you quoted. Legal immigrants, trying to assimilate, and yet again, it turned out to be only about illegals not doing so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
Sweden, you proffer a great many contentious claims, which is why replies to you tend to be slightly combatitive. I'm even roused to try. Age 18 is wonderful, open-minded, its most attractive, fresh from a lifetime of education and totally lacking in real life experience.
I might only be 18 but I do not lack real life experience.
Not everyone has been fortune enough to live a middle class life. Some has had to work to survive.
I might not have owned any property by law, but I have since my father left us had to help my mother paying for the house, fixing the house, having to share all the troubles with owning a house, etc.
I have lost 4 of my absolute closest relatives and loved ones within 3 years. That does a lot to someone, no matter what age.
I can go on, there are way worse things to tell, but of course, this is afterall the Internet, and I do not want some things out in the world like that.
My opinions have no value in your eyes, based on my age. But not on me as a person.

I have lived in the real life. I know what damages others do to others. Illegals and legals. But I refuse to hate. It is the governments faults, not the people's.
Western countries do have the resources to cope with what we are dealing with. It is our governments not using the resources properly that is causing the problems.

Again, this thread has NOTHING to do with this. Read the OP instead of quoting me all the time. We are going in circles, no where near an end. I have stated my opinion, we have discussed it. Let's move on. This discussion is not fair since it is everyone against one.

On topic: I belive that law-abiding legal immigrants are no different from law-abiding native-born people in any country.
I believe that there are more law-abiding, immigrant people in the US than criminals.
I believe it is wrong to take a bunch of people and say that all people from the same origin are the same. Everyone is different. We are all individuals, no matter where we come from.
 
Old 10-08-2007, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,700,150 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
I might only be 18 but I do not lack real life experience.
Not everyone has been fortune enough to live a middle class life. Some has had to work to survive.
I might not have owned any property by law, but I have since my father left us had to help my mother paying for the house, fixing the house, having to share all the troubles with owning a house, etc.
I have lost 4 of my absolute closest relatives and loved ones within 3 years. That does a lot to someone, no matter what age.
I can go on, there are way worse things to tell, but of course, this is afterall the Internet, and I do not want some things out in the world like that.
My opinions have no value in your eyes, based on my age. But not on me as a person.

I have lived in the real life. I know what damages others do to others. Illegals and legals. But I refuse to hate. It is the governments faults, not the people's.
Western countries do have the resources to cope with what we are dealing with. It is our governments not using the resources properly that is causing the problems.

Again, this thread has NOTHING to do with this. Read the OP instead of quoting me all the time. We are going in circles, no where near an end. I have stated my opinion, we have discussed it. Let's move on. This discussion is not fair since it is everyone against one.

On topic: I belive that law-abiding legal immigrants are no different from law-abiding native-born people in any country.
I believe that there are more law-abiding, immigrant people in the US than criminals.
I believe it is wrong to take a bunch of people and say that all people from the same origin are the same. Everyone is different. We are all individuals, no matter where we come from.
Just so you know, I am not against you. I dont even know you. Most of us here have had hard lives at some point, me at your age I was a mom working two jobs and going to school. On my own. Sorry if we seem defensive on this subject, once you get here you may understand a bit more. It isnt about hate, I hate my ex but thats about it. It is about respect and so far most of the illegals have shown none. My grandparents came over during WW2 from Germany because they helped Jewish people hide guess what they did it leagaly and quickly became true Americans, in every way it isnt hard to do with some determination, so i dont buy that one. I have family in Germany and Ireland and visit them both. I have nothing but a positive way of thinking of most Europeans, I have met many. But yes we will get defensive about how people speak about us in general, we are not all stupid violent haters, mostly we just want people that come to live here to respect our country and our way of life, as I would do in your country. I try not to lump all immigrants into one catagory.
 
Old 10-08-2007, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Wiesbaden, Germany
13,807 posts, read 25,852,834 times
Reputation: 3984
Sweden, I realize you are only an 18 year old student and the vast amount of your "education" comes from books, the internet and forums, but you need to be careful when you do move over here. You stereotype WAY too much and a lot of people are going to take offense to it.. the funny part is you get mad when people stereotype you and your fellow europeans..

Hopefully you come over with a blank slate and spend your first year here being educated by the real life that is actually around you.. You're probably going to be amazed at the lack of quality your prior education actually had when it's placed in the real world.. I have yet to go from a school to a job and not be told to forget everything I just learned because it's complete BS out in the actual working environment.. You also need to make sure you visit some cities on the southern border (with Mexico). I would highly suggest you visit somewhere like Laredo or Brownsville, Texas and take in all the good that illegal immigration and the drug trade have brought over to the US side of the border.. That'll open your eyes a little...
 
Old 10-08-2007, 04:32 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,161,126 times
Reputation: 138
1. Illegal Immigrants help fund Social Security
2. They provide a low-cost solution to help Americans for our love for cheap stuff
3. Major contributors to the agricultural sector of the economy (which happens to be huge)

What bad are they doing? Bad in the blue collar American's opinion because they didn't take hold of their education and get a better job. We all have the same chance at getting the best education. Now they're sitting at their computer all butt hurt ranting about how miserable they are because they were replaced with a cheaper solution.
 
Old 10-08-2007, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Wiesbaden, Germany
13,807 posts, read 25,852,834 times
Reputation: 3984
nice job ASSuming everyone here isn't "educated"... maybe some of us are relaxing after a day of work, a LEGAL day of work where we actually paid into social security with our actual LEGAL social security number...

Best part about my job is it requires an extremely high security clearance and there's no way any illegal alien is going to get in..
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