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Old 10-14-2012, 11:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post

Cultural and religious norms for illegal aliens would also be seen in legal immigrant and native citizen populations matching the same culture and religion. But the actual data doesn't support that there is any sort of high birthrate for illegal aliens compared to their legal counterparts. If you still want to argue that it is a "cultural/religious thing" basis, it takes the discussion outside the realm of just being about illegal immigration.
That's probably true -- the birth rates for both legals and illegals from Mexico are sky high and having a baby here gets both their Medicaid and food stamps and WIC coupons. It's a culture of "machismo" where a man feels like a man only if he's impregnating women and women only feel important if they are mothers. The hispanic illegitimacy rate is 68% for a reason.

I wouldn't argue that it has to do with religion however -- the Catholic Church actually doesn't require fornication. And religion has nothing to do with all the 13 and 14 year old girls giving birth.
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Old 10-14-2012, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,019,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
That's probably true -- the birth rates for both legals and illegals from Mexico are sky high and having a baby here gets both their Medicaid and food stamps and WIC coupons...
There is absolutely no valid data to back up your statement here, but you repeat this lie over and over without pause...

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
...It's a culture of "machismo" where a man feels like a man only if he's impregnating women and women only feel important if they are mothers. The hispanic illegitimacy rate is 68% for a reason...
Wow! Do you belong to a culture where a man feels like a man when belittling other cultures? Did you gain this insight from some personal experience, or do you have a source?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
...I wouldn't argue that it has to do with religion however -- the Catholic Church actually doesn't require fornication. And religion has nothing to do with all the 13 and 14 year old girls giving birth.
Crass against religion too! The Catholic Church revolves around a birth that is believed to have been from (at most) a 13 or 14 year-old girl. You are belittling the largest church membership in the United States, comprised of more than just Hispanics.

Quote:
The U.S. teen birth rate declined 9 percent from 2009 to 2010, falling to 34.3 births per 1,000 women aged 15-19, its lowest point since record-keeping began in 1940. Fewer babies were born to teens in 2010 than in any year since 1946.


From the CDC:

Quote:
Teen birth rates by age and race and Hispanic origin were lower in 2010 than ever reported in the United States.


The CDC does not consider births from "13 and 14 year-old mothers" to be even regular enough to have a category specifically for them. Their data analysis begins from mothers that are at least 15 years-old. And you are going to have a very hard time proving a majority of these "13 and 14 year-old mothers" you refer to are illegal aliens themselves.
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:28 PM
 
31,886 posts, read 14,678,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
There is absolutely no valid data to back up your statement here, but you repeat this lie over and over without pause...



Wow! Do you belong to a culture where a man feels like a man when belittling other cultures? Did you gain this insight from some personal experience, or do you have a source?



Crass against religion too! The Catholic Church revolves around a birth that is believed to have been from (at most) a 13 or 14 year-old girl. You are belittling the largest church membership in the United States, comprised of more than just Hispanics.



From the CDC:



The CDC does not consider births from "13 and 14 year-old mothers" to be even regular enough to have a category specifically for them. Their data analysis begins from mothers that are at least 15 years-old. And you are going to have a very hard time proving a majority of these "13 and 14 year-old mothers" you refer to are illegal aliens themselves.
Then there is this. It is hard to imagine that not much of this is occuring due to illegal immigration from Mexico and other Latino countries especially since 70% of the births alone in Parkland Hospital were from illegal immigrant mothers. I don't know the average ages of these mothers but it does indicate that it could be a combination of cultural/religious beliefs on both the part of the female and the male. Also most Latinos are Catholics and the Catholic religion forbids birth control in most forms. Add to that the knowledge that our government will care for these kids and you have a recipe for the below.

U.S. Hispanic Population Is Booming - US News and World Report
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Old 10-14-2012, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Then there is this. It is hard to imagine that not much of this is occuring due to illegal immigration from Mexico and other Latino countries especially since 70% of the births alone in Parkland Hospital were from illegal immigrant mothers. I don't know the average ages of these mothers but it does indicate that it could be a combination of cultural/religious beliefs on both the part of the female and the male. Also most Latinos are Catholics and the Catholic religion forbids birth control in most forms. Add to that the knowledge that our government will care for these kids and you have a recipe for the below.

U.S. Hispanic Population Is Booming - US News and World Report
We are not trying to "imagine" actual numbers from some effect. Percentages have absolutely no bearing if the numbers they are based on are unknown. How many (percentage) of Hispanics are you going to define as "illegal aliens" to get the results you want?

Many of those from Italian, Irish, Polish, and French heritage in the United States are also Catholic, but they do not have high birthrates under the same church doctrine. If you are going to forward a theory, the data has to support it in some form. Did you miss where I just quoted the CDC stating that the Hispanic birthrate is the lowest since the data has started being collected?
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Old 10-14-2012, 06:22 PM
 
31,886 posts, read 14,678,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
We are not trying to "imagine" actual numbers from some effect. Percentages have absolutely no bearing if the numbers they are based on are unknown. How many (percentage) of Hispanics are you going to define as "illegal aliens" to get the results you want?

Many of those from Italian, Irish, Polish, and French heritage in the United States are also Catholic, but they do not have high birthrates under the same church doctrine. If you are going to forward a theory, the data has to support it in some form. Did you miss where I just quoted the CDC stating that the Hispanic birthrate is the lowest since the data has started being collected?
I never claimed to know the actual numbers. What I said it is hard to imagine that many of these births aren't from illegal immigrants. I even gave you evidence of the high birthrates of illegal immigrant mothers in that hospital in Dallas which was 70%! I don't "want" any particular results I am just providing you with evidence on this topic. You seem to be overly sensitive about this subject demanding all kinds of proof on claims I never made in the first place.

I realize that those of the ethnic/national groups you mentioned are also Catholics but the stats are that it is Hispanics who are producing the most children today in this country, not them. I know many non-Hispanic Catholics that don't even adhere to the Catholic doctrine against birth control. It is no coincidence that there are so many Hispanics here illegally compared to those other groups also. It would at least play a role in their higher birthrates.

If their birthrates are down how does that nullify the stats in my article that are only a couple of years or so old? That's like saying well they only had 5 kids two years ago but 4 today and everyone else only has 2. That doesn't change the bottom line over the past decade or so or that they still produce kids at a higher rate than anyone else and I fully believe from the evidence that many of them are illegal immigrant mothers.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,019,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...I realize that those of the ethnic/national groups you mentioned are also Catholics but the stats are that it is Hispanics who are producing the most children today in this country, not them...
False, the most babies of any single ethnicity born in the United States are classified as "White". All of the other ethnicities together eclipsed "White" births only in this last year. You are mixing up the data you are hearing with what you want to believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...If their birthrates are down how does that nullify the stats in my article that are only a couple of years or so old? That's like saying well they only had 5 kids two years ago but 4 today and everyone else only has 2...
Now you are trying to throw out inflated fertility rates based on your misunderstanding of birthrates. Here are the current fertility rates (the average number of children a woman will have in her lifetime):



Actually a fertility rate of 2.1 (which does not consider immigration rates) is "replacement level". Even without any further immigration, Hispanics will increase, "Whites" and Asians will decrease (Asians lose the immigration that puts them above replacement rates), and Blacks stay almost to the same population.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...That doesn't change the bottom line over the past decade or so or that they still produce kids at a higher rate than anyone else and I fully believe from the evidence that many of them are illegal immigrant mothers.
We are back at trying to find actual "evidence" to support your beliefs...

What percentage of Hispanics in the United States do you believe are in an illegal alien status or are their children?...

Last edited by IBMMuseum; 10-14-2012 at 10:46 PM..
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:06 PM
 
3,047 posts, read 2,107,875 times
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Let me just clear something up. Just because you aren't a Citizen doesn't make you illegal.
A Permanent Resident(Green Card) is legal but not a citizen......

Ive always understood that you CANNOT get food stamps or welfare unless you are a Permanent Resident with a 10 year card OR a citizen.

Im an immigrant and went through the whole process. When I had my 2 year card, one of the conditions were that you are NOT allowed to get welfare. The 2 year card is a conditional card.

So how the hell do they get food stamps? I know its happening because I see it everyday. Its near impossible to do anything without a SS number too.

I just dont know how they are getting around this and its unfair to those of use that did it the right way.
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,019,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean71 View Post
Let me just clear something up. Just because you aren't a Citizen doesn't make you illegal.
A Permanent Resident(Green Card) is legal but not a citizen......

Ive always understood that you CANNOT get food stamps or welfare unless you are a Permanent Resident with a 10 year card OR a citizen.

Im an immigrant and went through the whole process. When I had my 2 year card, one of the conditions were that you are NOT allowed to get welfare. The 2 year card is a conditional card.

So how the hell do they get food stamps? I know its happening because I see it everyday. Its near impossible to do anything without a SS number too...
The actual qualifications have been linked here before: http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/governm...nce_063011.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean71 View Post
...I just dont know how they are getting around this and its unfair to those of use that did it the right way.
What is your evidence that illegal aliens "are getting around this"?...
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:28 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,829,832 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean71 View Post
Let me just clear something up. Just because you aren't a Citizen doesn't make you illegal.
A Permanent Resident(Green Card) is legal but not a citizen......

Ive always understood that you CANNOT get food stamps or welfare unless you are a Permanent Resident with a 10 year card OR a citizen.

Im an immigrant and went through the whole process. When I had my 2 year card, one of the conditions were that you are NOT allowed to get welfare. The 2 year card is a conditional card.

So how the hell do they get food stamps? I know its happening because I see it everyday. Its near impossible to do anything without a SS number too.

I just dont know how they are getting around this and its unfair to those of use that did it the right way.
They are getting around it by giving birth. All US born babies can bring in food stamps and WIC for the household. The amount of food stamps given is based on household size.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,019,998 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
They are getting around it by giving birth. All US born babies can bring in food stamps and WIC for the household. The amount of food stamps given is based on household size.
False (and the USDA documents address against that claim specifically), the amount of benefits is based on the number of qualified recipients within the household...
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