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Old 10-15-2012, 11:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
The actual qualifications have been linked here before: http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/governm...nce_063011.pdf



What is your evidence that illegal aliens "are getting around this"?...
Ive read stories on other forums as well as seen it at work. I work for a grocery store. Theres a big population of Hispanics in my area, many of which are illegal.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean71 View Post
Ive read stories on other forums as well as seen it at work. I work for a grocery store. Theres a big population of Hispanics in my area, many of which are illegal.
Forums like this one aren't very good getting at the entire truth. We've had some claims that illegal aliens number 50 million or more (which is almost 1 in 6 of our population). Another poster is wholly unfamiliar with the Southwest (where I live), and thinks that the only Hispanics down here are Mexicans that have come over.

You've even heard "malamute", who says most Hispanics came in the "amnesties" of the 1980's, a claim that instantly fails by the majority Hispanic population of my entire state...

I would have remembered something like that growing up too...

Become informed enough to spot the more whimsical claims. When you hear "exploding birthrate", and get actual numbers from the CDC showing the reverse, start wondering why it is stated as such. A few forums on the Internet (like ALIPAC) don't have any contrasting members, so the misinformation is bandied about and starts to be believed.

I don't dispute your stories. There very well could be illegal aliens getting food benefits for their U.S. citizen children at the store you work for. But unless you know they actually are illegal aliens, be less willing to believe they actually are.

My legal immigrant wife worked at a Wal-Mart, and was accused a couple times by customers (hearing the accent to her English) of being an illegal alien (more truthfully, called a "wetb4ck" on one occasion). Another customer accused her of trying to steal the woman's identity when she wrote the driver's license number on the personal check, in-line with the store's policy. Just a couple days ago, now on the customer side, my wife had a meddling twit feel the need to step forward to publicly correct her English.

As you know, the accent sets you aside...

Of the Hispanics in your area, how many (a percentage) do you really feel are illegal aliens?...
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:10 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8349
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Forums like this one aren't very good getting at the entire truth. We've had some claims that illegal aliens number 50 million or more (which is almost 1 in 6 of our population). Another poster is wholly unfamiliar with the Southwest (where I live), and thinks that the only Hispanics down here are Mexicans that have come over.

You've even heard "malamute", who says most Hispanics came in the "amnesties" of the 1980's, a claim that instantly fails by the majority Hispanic population of my entire state...

I would have remembered something like that growing up too...

Become informed enough to spot the more whimsical claims. When you hear "exploding birthrate", and get actual numbers from the CDC showing the reverse, start wondering why it is stated as such. A few forums on the Internet (like ALIPAC) don't have any contrasting members, so the misinformation is bandied about and starts to be believed.

I don't dispute your stories. There very well could be illegal aliens getting food benefits for their U.S. citizen children at the store you work for. But unless you know they actually are illegal aliens, be less willing to believe they actually are.

My legal immigrant wife worked at a Wal-Mart, and was accused a couple times by customers (hearing the accent to her English) of being an illegal alien (more truthfully, called a "wetb4ck" on one occasion). Another customer accused her of trying to steal the woman's identity when she wrote the driver's license number on the personal check, in-line with the store's policy. Just a couple days ago, now on the customer side, my wife had a meddling twit feel the need to step forward to publicly correct her English.

As you know, the accent sets you aside...

Of the Hispanics in your area, how many (a percentage) do you really feel are illegal aliens?...
I will address two of your remarks. It was indeed mostly Mexicans that benefited from the 1986 amnesty. The Hispanics of New Mexico are mostly of Spanish ancestry and never were Mexicans.

In the past decade or so there indeed was an exploding birthrate by Hispanics mostly of Mexican ancestry and much of it was due to both legal and illegal immigration. If this trend has reversed recently so be it but that does not nullify my claims nor the link to my claims about the past.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:10 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,096,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Forums like this one aren't very good getting at the entire truth. We've had some claims that illegal aliens number 50 million or more (which is almost 1 in 6 of our population). Another poster is wholly unfamiliar with the Southwest (where I live), and thinks that the only Hispanics down here are Mexicans that have come over.

You've even heard "malamute", who says most Hispanics came in the "amnesties" of the 1980's, a claim that instantly fails by the majority Hispanic population of my entire state...

I would have remembered something like that growing up too...

Become informed enough to spot the more whimsical claims. When you hear "exploding birthrate", and get actual numbers from the CDC showing the reverse, start wondering why it is stated as such. A few forums on the Internet (like ALIPAC) don't have any contrasting members, so the misinformation is bandied about and starts to be believed.

I don't dispute your stories. There very well could be illegal aliens getting food benefits for their U.S. citizen children at the store you work for. But unless you know they actually are illegal aliens, be less willing to believe they actually are.

My legal immigrant wife worked at a Wal-Mart, and was accused a couple times by customers (hearing the accent to her English) of being an illegal alien (more truthfully, called a "wetb4ck" on one occasion). Another customer accused her of trying to steal the woman's identity when she wrote the driver's license number on the personal check, in-line with the store's policy. Just a couple days ago, now on the customer side, my wife had a meddling twit feel the need to step forward to publicly correct her English.

As you know, the accent sets you aside...

Of the Hispanics in your area, how many (a percentage) do you really feel are illegal aliens?...
You are discerning there are very little illegals in this country, when the facts are contrary to your beliefs.

Many hispanics are illegal. How many 3rd world hispanics apply for legal immigration & residency here? Not many.

How are most coming here? Through illegal means.

Why do the majority (mainly hispanic) fight our immigration laws?
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I will address two of your remarks. It was indeed mostly Mexicans that benefited from the 1986 amnesty. The Hispanics of New Mexico are mostly of Spanish ancestry and never were Mexicans...
False, in fact you and your wife regularly identify Hispanics of Mexico and the Southwestern United States as both being "Mestizo". It is estimated that 890,000 fled the Mexican Revolution into the United States, including the ancestors of Mitt Romney. You can review Federal Censuses (from 1900 to 1940) in New Mexico to see what people listed as their origins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...In the past decade or so there indeed was an exploding birthrate by Hispanics mostly of Mexican ancestry and much of it was due to both legal and illegal immigration. If this trend has reversed recently so be it but that does not nullify my claims nor the link to my claims about the past.
There has been competing claims made on the forum about Hispanic birthrates (and ages of mothers), maybe some members can confer a little to come to an agreement. Yes, they have dropped in the last decade, but I don't think you can effectively source that to a majority being illegal alien parents. Remember, I did say a relevant number popped out by another member trying to help you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
You are discerning there are very little illegals in this country, when the facts are contrary to your beliefs.

Many hispanics are illegal. How many 3rd world hispanics apply for legal immigration & residency here? Not many.

How are most coming here? Through illegal means.

Why do the majority (mainly hispanic) fight our immigration laws?
What percentage of Hispanics do you believe are illegal aliens? In reference to how many Mexicans and other Latin American legal immigrants, DHS does give an annual report on those statistics. Have you seen the data?
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:59 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
False, in fact you and your wife regularly identify Hispanics of Mexico and the Southwestern United States as both being "Mestizo". It is estimated that 890,000 fled the Mexican Revolution into the United States, including the ancestors of Mitt Romney. You can review Federal Censuses (from 1900 to 1940) in New Mexico to see what people listed as their origins.



There has been competing claims made on the forum about Hispanic birthrates (and ages of mothers), maybe some members can confer a little to come to an agreement. Yes, they have dropped in the last decade, but I don't think you can effectively source that to a majority being illegal alien parents. Remember, I did say a relevant number popped out by another member trying to help you.



What percentage of Hispanics do you believe are illegal aliens? In reference to how many Mexicans and other Latin American legal immigrants, DHS does give an annual report on those statistics. Have you seen the data?
"The majority of Hispanics in New Mexico claim a Spanish ancestry, especially in the northern part of the state. These people are the descendants of Spanish colonists who arrived during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries"

New Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
"The majority of Hispanics in New Mexico claim a Spanish ancestry, especially in the northern part of the state. These people are the descendants of Spanish colonists who arrived during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries"

New Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Excellent, but (in the next paragraph, for the 2000 Census) "the most commonly claimed ancestry groups in New Mexico were: Spanish (18.7%), Mexican (16.3%), American Indian (10.3%), and German (9.8%)"...

A "majority" by 2.4% more. They claim Spanish ancestry, especially in the norther part of the state, to avoid the reality that they are ultimately descended from Mexicans (their ancestors had no other way of transitioning from being Spanish subjects, it's even true for some of German heritage around these parts). Of course they could still claim to be descended from "Spanish colonists who arrived during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries", and recently come up from Mexico themselves, right?

With that in mind, how many Hispanics in the United States do you think are illegal aliens?...
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:48 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Excellent, but (in the next paragraph, for the 2000 Census) "the most commonly claimed ancestry groups in New Mexico were: Spanish (18.7%), Mexican (16.3%), American Indian (10.3%), and German (9.8%)"...

A "majority" by 2.4% more. They claim Spanish ancestry, especially in the norther part of the state, to avoid the reality that they are ultimately descended from Mexicans (their ancestors had no other way of transitioning from being Spanish subjects, it's even true for some of German heritage around these parts). Of course they could still claim to be descended from "Spanish colonists who arrived during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries", and recently come up from Mexico themselves, right?

With that in mind, how many Hispanics in the United States do you think are illegal aliens?...
Put your own spin on it if you wish. In the quote I provided it said nothing about them being of Mexican ancestry also. Is this going to be another topic that will keep going around and around and back and forth in a circle? No, thanks I'll pass.

I already answered your question yesterday about what the projected number of Hispanics in this country illegally is. Mexicans make up 60% of them and other Hispanics/Latinos make up another 20% of them. I even used the long ago number of 12 million so you could do the math yourself and stated that the last census claimed there were 50 million Hispanics in this country including those here illegally. Why are you asking the same question again?
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Put your own spin on it if you wish. In the quote I provided it said nothing about them being of Mexican ancestry also. Is this going to be another topic that will keep going around and around and back and forth in a circle? No, thanks I'll pass...
But it was in the paragraph below what you quoted. It's a matter of geography, the area around New Mexico didn't go from being under Spain to the United States. They became Mexicans, at least for a short time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...I already answered your question yesterday about what the projected number of Hispanics in this country illegally is. Mexicans make up 60% of them and other Hispanics/Latinos make up another 20% of them. I even used the long ago number of 12 million so you could do the math yourself and stated that the last census claimed there were 50 million Hispanics in this country including those here illegally. Why are you asking the same question again?
Birthrates. I said I had heard an estimate that 6 million children in the United States have at least one illegal alien parent. "PurpleRain_1" tried to be helpful, and quoted an article claiming 300,000 per year being born to illegal aliens. Multiplication (of 300,000 over 18 years) works out very well, and even covers children of illegal aliens that are illegal aliens themselves.

Hispanics birthrates have been dropping, and are listed as dipping just below one million births in 2007. That equates to less than a third of births in 2007 that had at least one illegal alien parent (the Parkland Hospital article is from 2006). Those parents are going to have U.S. citizens and Legal Permanent Residents in relationships with illegal aliens (primarily where the mother is the illegal alien, rather than the father), in addition to those where both parents are illegal aliens.

A percentage of those illegal alien parents also won't be Hispanics...

By births, Hispanics are increasing in numbers primarily by parents that are not illegal aliens...

Immigration rates. As stated, DHS produces an annual report cover the current and previous two years of data for those becoming Legal Permanent Residents. The report for 2007 is still accessible: http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...PR_FR_2007.pdf

There are 238,561 legal immigrants in 2007 from Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, and Peru. Adding Cuba, Haiti, and the Dominican Republic would be another 90,000 (Brazil is not truly "Hispanic", and not included here). Conservatively, there would have to greater than a half million illegal immigrants for a year like 2007 for Hispanics to be gaining a majority of their numbers from illegal aliens and their births in the United States.

I've rounded down to err on the side of higher illegal alien numbers, and believe it would require a sustained illegal immigration rate of 750,000 to one million per year to have a majority of Hispanic growth through illegal aliens and their children (by definition of discussion, with two illegal alien parents)...
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:32 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Excellent, but (in the next paragraph, for the 2000 Census) "the most commonly claimed ancestry groups in New Mexico were: Spanish (18.7%), Mexican (16.3%), American Indian (10.3%), and German (9.8%)"...

A "majority" by 2.4% more. They claim Spanish ancestry, especially in the norther part of the state, to avoid the reality that they are ultimately descended from Mexicans (their ancestors had no other way of transitioning from being Spanish subjects, it's even true for some of German heritage around these parts). Of course they could still claim to be descended from "Spanish colonists who arrived during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries", and recently come up from Mexico themselves, right?

With that in mind, how many Hispanics in the United States do you think are illegal aliens?...
Wrong. As usual. I know plenty of New Mexicans who will say they are Spanish or Spanish-Indian. They never immigrated from Mexico. Their ancestors did come from Spain, their culture and language comes from Spain and they didn't necessarily want independence from Spain -- the handful of years they were ruled by Mexico City was meaningless and their distance from Mexico City never made for strong attachments to that government.

Just like many of the Tejanos were of people who left Mexico for political reasons because they never like Mexican idiots like Santa Ana ruling over them. Texas had more English speakers than Mexicans when Mexico became independent from Spain, they were invited in by the Spanish government.

You forget that Mexico's government has always been very centrist - and the further away people lived from Mexico City, the less they relied on it. Those who moved very far, into the northern territories (New Mexico was never a state of Mexico) were a different kind of people from those in the center of Mexico. Or they never did live in actual Mexico.

Mexicans aren't moving en masse to the USA because of territory that was once part of Mexico, they are moving en masse to the USA because they want to be in the USA where the living is much easier and there is more material things. If land once being part of Mexico mattered, you'd see a flood of Mexicans heading into Guatemala -- after all Guatemala was once part of Mexico too. No food stamps or free health care in Guatemala.
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