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Old 10-08-2012, 09:32 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwebbster View Post
Dunno, It just doesn't sound quite right. Actual legal immigration to Mexico is small & I don't see how
we could be deporting more illegals than those that sneak across the southern border. Phoenix is so bad
they should just fly the Mexican flag.
Yes -- I'm not sure what the writer of this article has for facts -- and it's not as though the government has someone standing at the border counting how many are coming and how many are going.

What I find hilarious are these sob stories about illegals forgetting their Spanish. That's completely absurd and if they really were forgetting Spanish upon arrival here, then why are we having to press two for English? And who is watching Univision and listening to all those thousands of Mexican radio stations going up everywhere?

Virtually every illegal from Mexico hears Spanish spoken in the home, once back home in Mexico, they'll pick up a lot more of their language through immersion. I doubt there are any Mexicans in the USA who cannot speak Spanish. Even those smuggled in as infants learned Spanish as their first language and would certainly use it when speaking with parents.

The article is right though that illegals will certainly adjust to life back home. Just like Americans who relocate for jobs or job transfers have an adjustment period, and you even have to adjust when returning after an extended absense from a place, yes, there is likely some adjustment the illegals make when returning home.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:50 PM
 
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Either way good luck to them and hopefully they can help Mexico change for the better.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:00 AM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,856 posts, read 2,025,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Uh; I live in Phoenix and def see less Spanish speaking people than a few years back. Look at many of the "Mexican" stores that closed up like many Food Citys.

MOST of the Spanish speakers left seem to be in Maryvale and few in places like Camelback.
They took over the neighborhood (in Maryvale) where I lived for ten years. We lived next door to a pink house that was a drop house. Endless stream of people and animals. (I love to visit my old neighborhood on Google Earth. I am amazed at how big this pink house is growing... it practically fills the whole backyard now.)
We left in 2004 and never looked back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Yes -- I'm not sure what the writer of this article has for facts -- and it's not as though the government has someone standing at the border counting how many are coming and how many are going.

What I find hilarious are these sob stories about illegals forgetting their Spanish. That's completely absurd and if they really were forgetting Spanish upon arrival here, then why are we having to press two for English? And who is watching Univision and listening to all those thousands of Mexican radio stations going up everywhere?

Virtually every illegal from Mexico hears Spanish spoken in the home, once back home in Mexico, they'll pick up a lot more of their language through immersion. I doubt there are any Mexicans in the USA who cannot speak Spanish. Even those smuggled in as infants learned Spanish as their first language and would certainly use it when speaking with parents.

The article is right though that illegals will certainly adjust to life back home. Just like Americans who relocate for jobs or job transfers have an adjustment period, and you even have to adjust when returning after an extended absense from a place, yes, there is likely some adjustment the illegals make when returning home.
It always makes me laugh when I read a sob story and someone is saying they don't speak the same language as their parents. Who taught these poor children English while mom and dad were speaking Spanish? Did they have English maids?

I thought it was a worldwide phenomenon that infants learned the language of their parents.

I have a ton of brothers and we all learned English as young children. Not one of us learned a language (as a young child) other than what our parents spoke.

Is this a special trait of Spanish speakers? Do they absorb - through osmosis - the English language, because that is the language they will speak in school?

So many questions, and not one single answer that makes one bit of sense.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,549,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I do.

I also will say that English usage in Mexico is openly accepted (it is used and taught as a secondary language, and there are even English radio stations in places like Chihuahua), to report it otherwise as a counter example is pure fiction...
When do English classes kick in - the 8th grade? Is it basic English (see Spot run) or do they become proficient in speaking, reading, writing and comprehension of the English language? Why aren't they utilizing their second language in the US?

From most reports those that enter the US illegally are poorly educated, if educated at all. I've read where some don't even speak "proper" spanish nor do they know how to read or write in their own language.

What about the woman who was running for office in a small county in the US and was disqualified because of her failure to comprehend and speak English?

I'm not saying that they are ALL illiterate, but I would say the majority are. And I highly doubt that the majority are proficient in all aspects of the English language.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:07 AM
 
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Probably some think speaking Spanglish is speaking English -- in Mexico they might get odd looks when they talk about getting the breicas fixed on their trocas.

At any rate, there's no reason for them to not demand of their own country what they demanded of ours - they can have SSL courses - Spanish as a second language or demand government services be offered to them in English.

And it's clear that we would help these people by adding to their numbers. It probably is hard to be one of the very few deported in the homeland while many millions stay on here.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:14 AM
 
9,972 posts, read 14,014,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
It would be good if they would all go back instead of taking jobs from us.
That's what my ancestors said about the bloody Irish--and those Mick bastards are still here!
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:17 AM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,058 posts, read 15,464,992 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by antarez View Post
Either way good luck to them and hopefully they can help Mexico change for the better.
Sounds like they are, creating English call centers allows them to compete directly with other countries (India, Brazil) in offsourcing jobs from the US.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,549,980 times
Reputation: 2360
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Probably some think speaking Spanglish is speaking English -- in Mexico they might get odd looks when they talk about getting the breicas fixed on their trocas.

At any rate, there's no reason for them to not demand of their own country what they demanded of ours - they can have SSL courses - Spanish as a second language or demand government services be offered to them in English.

And it's clear that we would help these people by adding to their numbers. It probably is hard to be one of the very few deported in the homeland while many millions stay on here.
There doesn't seem to be a need to demand SSL courses as teaching English is part of the school curriculum, therefore English is a second language, as pointed out by our resident expert.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
When do English classes kick in - the 8th grade? Is it basic English (see Spot run) or do they become proficient in speaking, reading, writing and comprehension of the English language? Why aren't they utilizing their second language in the US?

From most reports those that enter the US illegally are poorly educated, if educated at all. I've read where some don't even speak "proper" spanish nor do they know how to read or write in their own language.

What about the woman who was running for office in a small county in the US and was disqualified because of her failure to comprehend and speak English?

I'm not saying that they are ALL illiterate, but I would say the majority are. And I highly doubt that the majority are proficient in all aspects of the English language.
I was familiar with the program in my wife's hometown, where it was close to our equivalent of the 8th grade and earlier (the earlier schools are within local neighborhoods, whereas the "High Schools" are centralized, and run in shifts). The kids themselves at that age are very much into accessing the English language music and videos online, and using English to be more "hip"). The politician you are referring to is a U.S. citizen - It can occur where birth or naturalization occurred as a minor, and English proficiency is thus untested (her community ultimately uses more Spanish, and I feel she would have been able to adapt to enough use of English on the job). Many of the illegal aliens from Mexico have indigenous blood in them, and would have not had as much access to schools there, or as much fluency in Spanish - If we are going to judge the culture for that, let's do the same for the culture you are in for educating their girls.

Mexico is just waiting for their chance - Trade (legitimate) with the United States is at good levels, but needs to be increased. That would keep more Mexicans in Mexico. One key point I always look at is whether someone opposed to illegal immigration also talks about boycotting legitimate trade (or refusing to honor NAFTA trucking agreements that the United States signed over 14 years ago) with Latin America - Either we help what we can with their economies, or they are going to try to come here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Sounds like they are, creating English call centers allows them to compete directly with other countries (India, Brazil) in offsourcing jobs from the US.
Yes, I've heard the same, another aspect in Mexican High Schools is heavy vocational training - Soldering circuit board and assembling items to get them ready for jobs...
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,009,391 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by softblueyz View Post
There doesn't seem to be a need to demand SSL courses as teaching English is part of the school curriculum, therefore English is a second language, as pointed out by our resident expert.
Just as long as you don't call the member you are replying to, "malamute", as "our resident expert". Malamute is where he wants to be on this forum, throwing barbs at Mexico and Mexicans whenever he likes, and spreading quite a bit of misinformation. Walk through a topic as he has to adjust his specifics, and you will see what I am referring to.

Last edited by IBMMuseum; 10-09-2012 at 10:33 AM..
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