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Old 10-13-2012, 02:01 PM
 
1,580 posts, read 1,424,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwebbster View Post
One less future drug smuggler.

Indeed. I just wish that we had a president that would support or border control and enforce our laws. The mess that they have created as a result of them not doing so has pretty much erased our sovereignty and has resulted in the implosion of this country.
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,015,841 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
It isn't necessarily factual that a "Mexican [N]ational" (being fully in Mexico) is throwing/hurling rocks just because the Border Patrol says so:

Tell me exactly (a timestamp, and showing that you understand the distances to the airboat) where you see anyone in the group throwing/hurling rocks before the shots at 2:52 in the video:



It has become the standard response of the Border Patrol to say someone was "throwing rocks" when an agent shots and kills a Mexican in Mexico, despite any video of the incident that they didn't know about...
Experience tells me it was more of the sounds that the boy with the aluminum bat makes at 2:38 ("ping - ping" is similar to a weapon being fired, especially where the agents have to contend with the noise of the engine over the top of hearing it). 14 seconds is about what it takes for the personnel on the airboat to change posture (sensed by the person filming to know it was a bad sign), an agent to sight on his unfortunate target, and fire. Which, of course, is very different from later saying "throwing rocks" to explain the incident.

Amazingly enough, the FBI will investigate it, not for the death of Guillermo Arévalo Pedroza, but over the allegations from the very same Border Patrol agents that rocks were being thrown at them by Guillermo's family gathered for the birthday party of his little girl...
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:08 PM
 
31,710 posts, read 14,631,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Experience tells me it was more of the sounds that the boy with the aluminum bat makes at 2:38 ("ping - ping" is similar to a weapon being fired, especially where the agents have to contend with the noise of the engine over the top of hearing it). 14 seconds is about what it takes for the personnel on the airboat to change posture (sensed by the person filming to know it was a bad sign), an agent to sight on his unfortunate target, and fire. Which, of course, is very different from later saying "throwing rocks" to explain the incident.

Amazingly enough, the FBI will investigate it, not for the death of Guillermo Arévalo Pedroza, but over the allegations from the very same Border Patrol agents that rocks were being thrown at them by Guillermo's family gathered for the birthday party of his little girl...
The sound is all messed up on this video and it is very difficult to see what actually happened. Since this video was provided by an obviously biased source I will take it with a grain of salt. So what is it that you are implying? There have been several incidents where rock throwing Mexicans were shot at by the Border Patrol. What would be their motive for shooting them? Just for fun? Are you aware of the large numbers of Border Patrol agents that are Hispanic themselves?

Curious to know why you always take the side of Mexican nationals and demonizing our Border Patrol or any other U.S. law enforcement individuals who are trying to keep them from coming here illegally, defending themselves from lethal weapons or trying to remove them within the laws of our country.
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,015,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
The sound is all messed up on this video and it is very difficult to see what actually happened. Since this video was provided by an obviously biased source I will take it with a grain of salt. So what is it that you are implying? There have been several incidents where rock throwing Mexicans were shot at by the Border Patrol. What would be their motive for shooting them? Just for fun? Are you aware of the large numbers of Border Patrol agents that are Hispanic themselves?

Curious to know why you always take the side of Mexican nationals and demonizing our Border Patrol or any other U.S. law enforcement individuals who are trying to keep them from coming here illegally, defending themselves from lethal weapons or trying to remove them within the laws of our country.
The "sound" is from the airboat, which means the Border Patrol agents are also wearing hearing protection. Video here, as well as for the shooting incident of Sergio Adrian Hernández Güereca, shows that there was not rocks thrown, and gives an idea of the distances to the agents. I'm not implying that Border Patrol agents are shooting at Mexican for sport (Agents Mesa, Compean, and Ramos were all Hispanics), just disputing what they announce to the news as "rock throwing" may not necessarily be the case.

In some instances, the Border Patrol themselves may have video that is never released to support their interpretation of the incident. In this particular case, neither Guillermo Arévalo Pedroza, nor any of those with him are attempting to enter the United States, or in an altercation with the Border Patrol agents. They are in Mexico, celebrating a birthday party with a barbeque.

I'm not "demonizing" the Border Patrol to say that I feel an agent may have thought he was being fired upon, and shot at whom he thought it was (Guillermo Arévalo Pedroza was the only individual that was hit, and the shots appear to be from only one agent's weapon). Just like for Agent Nicolas Ivie, the "fog of war" affects these Border Patrol agents like servicemembers in combat. In his case, it resulted in his own death, rather than that of a Mexican.

As a wholly separate topic that would be in another forum, I'm equally curious if you have ever watched the "Wikileaked" military video on the death of Reuters photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen, and felt it was justified because it was the American military in Iraq, and they were in a war zone...
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,556,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Rocks are weapons.

David killed Goliath with one.
The US thinks Israel is justified killing young kids and teens throwing rocks over the border/barriers at Israelis.

It's amazing how Mexico gets all bent out of shape when it's one of their own, but remain silent when it's a BP agent or an American citizen killed by their own. No outrage, no press comments, no apologies to the family. Has Mexico ever acknowledged how many Americans have been killed, disabled, raped, children molested, by their own.

Last edited by softblueyz; 10-14-2012 at 11:11 AM..
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,556,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Amazingly enough, the FBI will investigate it, not for the death of Guillermo Arévalo Pedroza, but over the allegations from the very same Border Patrol agents that rocks were being thrown at them by Guillermo's family gathered for the birthday party of his little girl...
The only interest I have in this story is that a BP agent is going to get called up for this. I'm sure there will be a follow up lawsuit because now there is a mother and children left with no father; and they will get their money. Unlike Americans who have loved ones killed by illegals. The only thing they get is to bury someone they loved.

There are many children out there who have lost a parent because of an illegal. There are many parents who have lost children because of an illegal.

Do you think they weep in Mexico when they hear about a BP agent being shot? Do they care that there was a family waiting for him to come and he will never again walk through the door? Do they weep for the children who's father/mother was killed by an illegal? Do they weep for families that lost a family member because an illegal was DUI? Do you think it makes the news over there? Do you think they really care at all? The weep and care only when they hear that a brother or uncle commited a crime - murder, rape, child molestation - and was arrested. Do you think they take 2 seconds to reflect on the family victimized and the victim who lost someone because of that brother or uncle?

Last edited by softblueyz; 10-14-2012 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:29 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 991,927 times
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Great place for a birthday party for a little girl---Yeah, let's go down to the river where all the drugs and illegal aliens are smuggled across the border.

So, no one saw anyone throwing rocks before the shooting began? No surprise there. Did you really expect the guy shooting the video to film that? I didn't actually see the BP agent shoot anyone either. Does that mean it didn't happen?
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,015,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayarcy View Post
Great place for a birthday party for a little girl---Yeah, let's go down to the river where all the drugs and illegal aliens are smuggled across the border.

So, no one saw anyone throwing rocks before the shooting began? No surprise there. Did you really expect the guy shooting the video to film that? I didn't actually see the BP agent shoot anyone either. Does that mean it didn't happen?
There seems to be a perception here that any Mexican close to our common border is up to no good. Many people from both sides of the river go there for recreational activities. Why hold the family as partially responsible for his death by where they picked to have a birthday party?

Keep telling yourself that even though the postures of the people in the video didn't look like they were throwing rocks, there had to be some off-camera. Border Patrol agents like Nicolas Ivie could never make the wrong decision to fire a weapon leading to a tragic end. It must have been a Mexican sniper that got him.
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:57 PM
 
31,710 posts, read 14,631,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
There seems to be a perception here that any Mexican close to our common border is up to no good. Many people from both sides of the river go there for recreational activities. Why hold the family as partially responsible for his death by where they picked to have a birthday party?

Keep telling yourself that even though the postures of the people in the video didn't look like they were throwing rocks, there had to be some off-camera. Border Patrol agents like Nicolas Ivie could never make the wrong decision to fire a weapon leading to a tragic end. It must have been a Mexican sniper that got him.
Why would a Border Patrol agent shoot a Mexican for no good reason? That question remains to be answered. Sure, not all may be on the up and up but everytime a Mexican is shot for throwing rocks at a Border Patrol agent (and it has happened several times) I have never once heard an illegal immigrant supporter or someone with ethnic ties to Mexicans ever defend the actions of the Border Patrol but constant implications that there wasn't any rock throwing at all. Instead it is always the Mexican who is the victim. I see a trend here.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,015,841 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Why would a Border Patrol agent shoot a Mexican for no good reason? That question remains to be answered. Sure, not all may be on the up and up but everytime a Mexican is shot for throwing rocks at a Border Patrol agent (and it has happened several times) I have never once heard an illegal immigrant supporter or someone with ethnic ties to Mexicans ever defend the actions of the Border Patrol but constant implications that there wasn't any rock throwing at all. Instead it is always the Mexican who is the victim. I see a trend here.
The real trend: Something happens where a Border Patrol agent shoots a Mexican in Mexico, and they say "rock throwing". Even when a video may come out later on that doesn't show rock being thrown (Sergio Adrian Hernández Güereca, Guillermo Arévalo Pedroza), the claim doesn't change.

Re-read my responses to you on the thread, because you are repeating yourself...
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