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Old 10-22-2012, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Too far from home.
8,743 posts, read 5,595,030 times
Reputation: 2360

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
The real question is, why does Al'Qaeda even care about the United States? Why aren't they over bombing China or Japan?
You really, really don't know the answers to those questions?
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:32 AM
 
2,913 posts, read 2,884,458 times
Reputation: 1047
We cannot deal with immigration until we deal with welfare. By welfare, I am referring to all these "free" services, like food, medicial, health care, education, etc. The people who are legally here are already cost a lot of money and we are adding more to more to welfare, thanks to big government.

I do agreed most people come here to look for a better opportunity, but for the small percentage who just want to come here for the welfare is a big no. Like I point out earlier, the welfare is costing us too much for the people already here, we cannot add more load to it.

We need to get rid of welfare and returns the money to taxpayers. When there is no welfare, people who want to come and stay will have no choice but benefit this country. They have to work and spend their money here.
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:35 AM
 
2,913 posts, read 2,884,458 times
Reputation: 1047
[quote=softblueyz;26613279]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post

I'm not aware of any country that has open immigration/open borders. If things are so great in Bangladesh, Sudan, Somalia, Mexico, Guatamala, why don't people from first world countries migrate there? Why do people from second and third world countries leave and migrate to first world countries? If your uncle's wife wants her family to come to the US what is stopping them from applying for legal entry?
All the countries you listed have 1 thing in common, and US is not too far behind. They are all big government dictating every thing. The government is wealthy while the people are dirt poor. They don't have private property right, we still do for now, but won't for long. Thanks again to big government
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
7,195 posts, read 4,367,054 times
Reputation: 2648
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
Ideally,it would be nice if Guatemala was able to emulate the success of Costa Rica and they would be happy in their own country. If Costa Rica can do it,why not Guatemala? Step 1 of course is disbanding the military.
The success of Costa Rica? You mean the fact that its economy is based almost entirely around mostly American tourism and is one of the most popular destinations for American ex-pats(mostly retirees)? As in, Americans are pseudo immigrating to Costa Rica in huge numbers, bringing their money with them?

Is that what you are talking about?

Yes, it would be nice if all countries could largely derive their economies through immigration and short-duration immigration(tourism).


Look, this wasn't a question about the internal governmental polices of Guatemala, or even the United States for that matter. It is a discussion on the politics and reality of immigration. And what is prohibiting the ability in modern society to have open-immigration, and whether or not there is any practical way to have almost entirely open-immigration, that wouldn't be harmful(IE the 1800's).


Just for reference, even though the United States is a rich country. It would be impossible for most Americans to move to another country. What if you wanted to live in Italy or France? What is the reason for immigration laws? Why have immigration laws become more strict over the last hundred years? Is there any way to have effectively world-wide open-immigration, that would have overall positive results?

I believe that there is a way. I would like it if the more intelligent people on this forum would put a little time and present their ideas for a plan. I had hoped to hear from egalitarian socialists and libertarians, and everyone in-between for possible solutions.
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:41 AM
 
Location: in area code 919 & from 716
928 posts, read 1,209,363 times
Reputation: 453
I know a bunch of you will listen to the politicians and their lies and won't have the ability nor a sincere interest to actually read this and look at the facts or even try to connect the dots.
That's typical of so many sheeple! Now that I pissed of the clueless and the less arrogant are gone ...
My fathers side of the family were legal immigrants into the USA.
in the 50's they were denied entry into the USA from Italy.
They moved to Brasil, became citizens there and re-applied for immigrant visa's.
My grandfather (head of the family) was an engineer and no ... the type who drove trains!
My wife came to the USA as a LEGAL political refugee from a communist eastern European country.
What they went through to enter the United States legally is is being INSULTED
by those who think they are entitled to break laws of a sovereign nation to suit their lack of ability to try to fix the short falls of their own country.
We as American's do plenty to help and fix problems for other countries.

We are being played like a cheap child's game here.

LOOK AT FACTS:

This is a problem tolerated by us through the manipulation of Globalist's who care about profits over the rights of a sovereign people.

THIS IS HOW IT CAN BEEN RECOGNIZED:

Middle Class job's in manufacturing have left our country and been shipped overseas for lower wage workers to do.

This profit stunt caused several effects:
  • Lower wages in third world countries
  • reduced quality costs when made in third world countries
    (look at Levi's - how thin the material is now that it's no longer made here)
  • Maintained and increased profit margins by selling us product we used to make here for almost the same prices with a lot less wage behind the cost.

Add to that the fact that the politicians REFUSE to secure our nation's borders from third world invaders of our employment market for the sake of NOT PROFIT - but to force wages down.

Do a Google search for this - Median middle class wages reduced - and notice middle class wages have been forced to be lowered.

There is a company here who used to hire welders (20 years ago) at a starting wage of $17.00 an hour (min. Federal wage in 1990 was $3.80 and min. Federal minimum wage in 1991 - 95 was $4.25).

This year - they start them at $10.00 an hour with Federal Minimum wage currently at $7.25 an hour.

Middle class revenue, funding, and determination (more important is middle class spirit) has to be reduced for a Globalist agenda - if not they (middle class) will start their own business and compete with the companies who shipped off our jobs and take our tax dollars for their lobbyist backs subsidies.
What really bites ...
they are still a tiny bit better than a Socialist agenda ...
welcome to reality - we have bad and worst to pick from in our November elections
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:45 AM
 
9,907 posts, read 7,755,910 times
Reputation: 6220
The Congress could change our policy today. They could say no more immigration until everybody who needs a job has one.

They could also say no sending money out of the country. There are long lines all over Houston every Friday night of people sending money out of the country. That is money that is not spent here. Congress could say for every dollar sent out of the country, there is a 10 cent tax. H

How many SS checks are sent to Mexico and Greece. I was told by my neighbor who worked for SS that a huge number of people will come and work the required number of quarters and then go home. We send their SS checks to them. That is money not being spent here.

Big government is as close as your congressman.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:35 AM
 
32,104 posts, read 14,827,373 times
Reputation: 8583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I went to Dallas last weekend, stopped in at my uncles house. He is married to a woman from Guatemala, really sweet lady.

Anyway, I ask her about Guatemala a lot when I'm there. She has mixed opinions about Guatemala, obviously she is from there, and has family there. So she holds a certain amount of nostalgia and bias for the place of her birth, but gets a little frustrated sometimes by the relative state of society there.

She wishes her family could come to the United States, but Guatemala is one of the poorer countries in the Americas, so it is nearly impossible to legally immigrate to the United States from there.

So I asked her what she thought should be done about immigration, which might enable her family to come to the United States. Well, she basically replied that they should just be able to move to the United States. She proclaimed that her family members were good/hard-working people.

So I replied, that is all well and good, but everyone believes the same of their relatives. And when we are talking about immigration policy, we have to understand that it must be applied consistently to the entire nation, and to some extent to the entire world, not simply to your family. So then the question is, how might you structure the government of the US and its policies, that would enable basically all families all over the world to be able to move to the United States, without there being any overall negative effects on the quality of life of the people who already live in this country?


Before you reply. Keep in mind, the three largest obstacles to open-immigration, are cultural incompatibilities, crime, and government per-capita spending/welfare.


Keep in mind, this isn't only about immigration policy itself, the real goal is for you to create a new US Government from scratch, which could hypothetically allow everyone in the entire world to move to the US tomorrow(if they wanted to come), which wouldn't destroy our quality of life.

Is it possible, and how would you do it?

PS : Please no partisan politics and attacks. I intend this to be a serious discussion. I don't want to hear the word Republican or Democrat used in a derogatory way. Thanks.
So what did the woman from Guatamala say when you used the very sound argument against unlimited immigration and especially from poor countries? Most pro-illegal Hispanics here in this country don't care about any of that. They just want as many Hispanics to come here as possible even if it means coming here illegally and negatively impacting the citizens of this nation.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
11,857 posts, read 9,815,960 times
Reputation: 10884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I'm confused on your statement "the industrial age has long passed". What do you mean? That the world is no longer industrialized? That industry is no longer a primary driver of our economy? What exactly does drive our economy then?

You might argue that this is a "service-based economy". Well, what kinds of educations are necessary for providing those services exactly?

What do you mean highly-skilled foreigners who will invest in the country and make it stronger? I suppose what you really mean is, we need highly-skilled foreigners who will have high incomes, which we can tax at high rates, to pay for our social welfare programs? I mean, for what other purpose would we "NEED" these foreigners anyway?

How many "opportunities" are there in this country anyway? Is there a finite amount of jobs, and so by increasing our population, we necessarily increase our unemployment rate? Or is there an almost infinite potential for jobs, and absolutely no correlation between population growth and unemployment rate?


Lets just pretend hypothetically that you brought an uneducated/unskilled person into this country. Why does it matter? Be as specific as you possibly can.
I'm not sure where the confusion comes in; the industrial age where there were factories pumping out product on every corner of cities and infrastructure being built at a break-neck rate, all which required as much labor as could be found, is long gone. What has replaced it, to a lesser extent, is low-wage service employment, which is not even sustaining the population we have.
Foreigners with capital will come to this country and build their own companies here, creating employment. Unskilled foreigners will come here to compete with our large base of unskilled workers to further the "race to the bottom". Unemployment and underemployment will increase, and wages will decrease, because there is more supply than demand. It's really not more complicated than that.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:42 AM
 
32,104 posts, read 14,827,373 times
Reputation: 8583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElGreco View Post
If you compare percent of GDP for education in European countries for example and USA and percent of GDP for defense you will see why educated people are welcome. If you are looking who's picking tomato in California and for whom you will see why are illegal immigrants welcome...
There is no reason to have illegal immigrants picking crops. There are unlimited visas for foreign agricultural workers. The reason that illegal immigrants are preferred by the growers is because they can increase their profits from them. Only 3% of the illegal immigrants in this country are picking crops anyway. The rest are taking jobs that our Americans need.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:44 AM
 
6,570 posts, read 3,457,203 times
Reputation: 3274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
The success of Costa Rica? You mean the fact that its economy is based almost entirely around mostly American tourism and is one of the most popular destinations for American ex-pats(mostly retirees)? As in, Americans are pseudo immigrating to Costa Rica in huge numbers, bringing their money with them?

Is that what you are talking about?

Yes, it would be nice if all countries could largely derive their economies through immigration and short-duration immigration(tourism).


Look, this wasn't a question about the internal governmental polices of Guatemala, or even the United States for that matter. It is a discussion on the politics and reality of immigration. And what is prohibiting the ability in modern society to have open-immigration, and whether or not there is any practical way to have almost entirely open-immigration, that wouldn't be harmful(IE the 1800's).


Just for reference, even though the United States is a rich country. It would be impossible for most Americans to move to another country. What if you wanted to live in Italy or France? What is the reason for immigration laws? Why have immigration laws become more strict over the last hundred years? Is there any way to have effectively world-wide open-immigration, that would have overall positive results?

I believe that there is a way. I would like it if the more intelligent people on this forum would put a little time and present their ideas for a plan. I had hoped to hear from egalitarian socialists and libertarians, and everyone in-between for possible solutions.
Uh..You notice the tourists and retirees are moving to and visiting Costa Rica and not Guatemala? Disbanding the military and shifting the funds to education worked pretty well.
If You Count Happiness, Costa Rica Is The Richest Country On Earth | Co.Exist: World changing ideas and innovation
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