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Old 10-22-2012, 11:24 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,949,633 times
Reputation: 22179

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It's totally foolish that the USA should be the only country in the world with no borders and no immigration laws.

For one, does it ever occur to any of these people to work for reform in their own homelands or do they really believe their whole entire country can simply move on in and be given a very comfortable lifestyle here?

There is absolutely no good reason for countries like Guatemala to have the poverty except for the corruption of the people, their tendency to overbreed and never demand reforms.

Why work for reforms? It's just too easy to move to the USA for the great life of Medicaid and food stamps.
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
7,194 posts, read 4,358,768 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
Follow the existing law. Get rid of residents on the dole and don't allow citizenship until they show a record that they will not become social service users on a regular basis.
Well, what about hospitals having to guarantee healthcare to everyone who shows up? What about birthright citizenship through the 14th amendment for their offspring? What about the costs of public education? What about things like affirmative-action and anti-discrimination laws, when tend to give preferences to certain groups of people?

Who decides who gets let in? The federal government or the states? Should states be allowed to bring in immigrants without the permission of the federal government, as long as the immigrants stay within the borders of that state only, and won't be granted citizenship?

Will there be any effect on crime rates? What about shift on voting patterns which could affect the role of government, once there is a huge number of immigrants with different histories and values than the typical American?

Are there any policy mechanisms that we would need to have to avoid any harmful affects coming from immigration?
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:16 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
7,194 posts, read 4,358,768 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's totally foolish that the USA should be the only country in the world with no borders and no immigration laws.

For one, does it ever occur to any of these people to work for reform in their own homelands or do they really believe their whole entire country can simply move on in and be given a very comfortable lifestyle here?

There is absolutely no good reason for countries like Guatemala to have the poverty except for the corruption of the people, their tendency to overbreed and never demand reforms.

Why work for reforms? It's just too easy to move to the USA for the great life of Medicaid and food stamps.
Look, this post has two purposes. One, it was to show the irony of Hispanics when it comes to the kinds of redistribution policies they tend to support that actually make it impossible to have more open immigration.

The second purpose of this post, was really a way for me to express an extension of a basic principle I have when it comes to the world.


I have mentioned this in other threads, but I have this obsession with freedom. Or more importantly, that there should be few if any limitations to my ability to go anywhere in this country, any time I want to. And that freedom should exist for everyone.

This view is based around both freedom of movement/travel, and also that I should be relatively secure in my person, anywhere I go.


So the objective for me, is to have the freedom to go practically anywhere I want to, in the entire world, at any time, without any major burden, and also feeling secure. So the question is, how do you achieve such an objective?

Keep in mind, this isn't only about immigration to the United States. My sister talks about wanting to move to the Mediterranean. Maybe move to the south of France, near Marseille. Maybe I would like to move to one of the Greek Islands. Or lets even pretend I was very religious, and wanted to move to Israel or some other country in the region. Or lets even pretend that I wanted to move to Ireland, because I have Irish roots. Or to Germany, because I love their beer.... Well for the vast majority of people even in America, it would simply be impossible to move to another country. And even if you yourself could move to another country, you most likely couldn't take your family or friends with you.

So the question is, what kinds of government policies would be necessary to allow basically unlimited immigration to the United States, which could be replicated all over the world, to allow for unlimited immigration to anywhere. So if you wanted to move anywhere in the world, you could basically get up and move there. And which would also not increase crime or hatred, and would increase the overall quality of life of people.


Is it possible? And how could it be done?

What if this country and all countries had the same structure of government the United States had during most of the 1800's. Would that kind of government allow for open borders? Why or why not?
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:55 AM
 
32,008 posts, read 14,770,092 times
Reputation: 8548
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's totally foolish that the USA should be the only country in the world with no borders and no immigration laws.

For one, does it ever occur to any of these people to work for reform in their own homelands or do they really believe their whole entire country can simply move on in and be given a very comfortable lifestyle here?

There is absolutely no good reason for countries like Guatemala to have the poverty except for the corruption of the people, their tendency to overbreed and never demand reforms.

Why work for reforms? It's just too easy to move to the USA for the great life of Medicaid and food stamps.
You're exactly right. These open border types never push for poverty stricken people to move to any other country than the U.S. I guess we are supposed to be the flop house of the world with no immigration laws whatsoever. Well a country without borders isn't a country at all.

You're right that these open border types never suggest that the citizens of other countries fight for change in their own countries rather than coming here either.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,602 posts, read 9,477,771 times
Reputation: 9212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Sorry, but I will fight for my country's soveirgnty till my dying breath and I know many Americans who will do likewise. Throwing your hands up in defeat is just being a coward IMO.
And how exactly are you fighting for your country, tough guy... tough talker, I mean. Tell me, exactly what are the real Patriotic Americans doing about the sell out of their interests by the 1%. Insulting other Americans without cause in cyberspace? Yah, that's effective. That will return this country to its former glory. Rock on, soldier.

BTW, the Occupy Wall Street kids had the right idea. They could have used a little more support than they got from people like you. We really all should be on the same side. When a country is doing the right thing for, by and to its citizens, issues like immigration take care of themselves. Economic refugees won't flee to a country that doesn't solicit their services.

H
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:57 AM
 
Location: in area code 919 & from 716
928 posts, read 1,207,897 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
And how exactly are you fighting for your country, tough guy... tough talker, I mean. Tell me, exactly what are the real Patriotic Americans doing about the sell out of their interests by the 1%. Insulting other Americans without cause in cyberspace? Yah, that's effective. That will return this country to its former glory. Rock on, soldier.

BTW, the Occupy Wall Street kids had the right idea. They could have used a little more support than they got from people like you. We really all should be on the same side. When a country is doing the right thing for, by and to its citizens, issues like immigration take care of themselves. Economic refugees won't flee to a country that doesn't solicit their services.

H
what have YOU done to fight for the rights of all?

You want to point fingers and act high and mighty

... have you even fought your own state about forcing people to pay for permits to collect water on their own property?

or are you just into jumping on people like some tough guy (... tough talker, I mean ) who verbally stand for something?

What are you trying to say with comments like:
tough guy... tough talker, I mean.
You think that was brilliant? ... sure - you mean tough talker - that's why you kept tough guy in your *** job!

One thing I do believe - is you would support OWS ... and probably it's hypocritical nonsense!
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,602 posts, read 9,477,771 times
Reputation: 9212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Duck View Post
what have YOU done to fight for the rights of all?

You want to point fingers and act high and mighty

... have you even fought your own state about forcing people to pay for permits to collect water on their own property?

or are you just into jumping on people like some tough guy (... tough talker, I mean ) who verbally stand for something?

What are you trying to say with comments like:
tough guy... tough talker, I mean.
You think that was brilliant? ... sure - you mean tough talker - that's why you kept tough guy in your *** job!

One thing I do believe - is you would support OWS ... and probably it's hypocritical nonsense!
Was I talking to you? Where did I say anything about wanting to fight for the rights of all? You seem to have confused me with a Libertarian. Only up to the first 'r'. Now that's brilliant. I'll take my praise off the air. Thank you.

H
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:08 AM
 
14,298 posts, read 7,788,282 times
Reputation: 4244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
{snip}
Before you reply. Keep in mind, the three largest obstacles to open-immigration, are cultural incompatibilities, crime, and government per-capita spending/welfare.


Keep in mind, this isn't only about immigration policy itself, the real goal is for you to create a new US Government from scratch, which could hypothetically allow everyone in the entire world to move to the US tomorrow(if they wanted to come), which wouldn't destroy our quality of life.
People need to fix their own countries, instead of throwing in the towel and coming here. If Pakistan had hundreds of thousands of people like Malala Yousufzai, the taliban would be run out of town, and the people could take back their country.

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Old 10-23-2012, 10:15 AM
 
Location: in area code 919 & from 716
928 posts, read 1,207,897 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Was I talking to you? Where did I say anything about wanting to fight for the rights of all? You seem to have confused me with a Libertarian. Only up to the first 'r'. Now that's brilliant. I'll take my praise off the air. Thank you.

H
No - you weren't talking to nor with me ... you were just attacking people rather than discussing points.

That attack stuff is mostly a liberal stunt! EVERYONE knows that!

I have to admit that you're comical!
Quote:
Where did I say anything about wanting to fight for the rights of all?
We already know that Liberals are all about JUST US and forget JUSTICE for all EQUALLY!

Not being interested in a fight for the rights of all is typical with those of a commie (aka Socialist) mentality. Does it fit well with you?
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:56 AM
 
32,008 posts, read 14,770,092 times
Reputation: 8548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
And how exactly are you fighting for your country, tough guy... tough talker, I mean. Tell me, exactly what are the real Patriotic Americans doing about the sell out of their interests by the 1%. Insulting other Americans without cause in cyberspace? Yah, that's effective. That will return this country to its former glory. Rock on, soldier.

BTW, the Occupy Wall Street kids had the right idea. They could have used a little more support than they got from people like you. We really all should be on the same side. When a country is doing the right thing for, by and to its citizens, issues like immigration take care of themselves. Economic refugees won't flee to a country that doesn't solicit their services.

H
Tough guy? Nothing like a smarta**, is there? They could fight for jobs and the economies in their own countries. We didn't become the most successful country on earth by being complacent. Yes, we have our problems in this country but we are at least addressing them. We aren't fleeing to our other countries illegally. We are choosing to stay and fight.

It is the greedy employers who are soliciting illegal immigrants to work for them but no one is forcing them to jump our borders illegally either. They share part of the blame. Neither they nor these greedy employers give a rat's behind how it is impacting our own citizens negatively. It is the leftist OWS gang and the rest of the left that are advocating for these illegals to remain here aka amnesty yet these illegals are fattening the wallets of the very Wall Streeters that they demonize. Hypocrites, much?
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