U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 10-29-2012, 12:08 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,161,659 times
Reputation: 22182

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
Did you seriously just type that? I've got news for you...a fleeing pickup truck is not jeopardizing the lives of anyone in a helicopter hovering a hundred feet or so in the air. Either you didn't read the story or you're out of your mind.

What more details do you need? We know the truck was in a desolate, unpopulated desert. We know they had done nothing to directly endanger the lives of civilians or law enforcement. We know the trooper fired on the truck from a helicopter. What facts could possibly come out that would change the way we look at this?



I hate to break it to you, but that wouldn't fly under even the most liberal interpretation of proximate cause.
All the driver had to do was pull over. Simple as that.

Anyone killed while committing a crime gets less sympathy than innocent people would. These people were all intent on breaking any law that got in their way, now they're dead, so sad too bad.

Same for bank robbers who didn't intend to kill any tellers or guards, same for thieves breaking and entering a home but not intending to kill the home owner. These clowns knew full well there were risks in committing the crimes they were committing -- so no -- not much sympathy for them from me.

 
Old 10-29-2012, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,800 posts, read 18,563,646 times
Reputation: 8999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
And, how do "we know" anything, other than what was reported in an online article? Or, do you actually believe police release all details for public consumption?
If anything reported in the story is untrue or debatable, the police will come out and make their side of the case. They're incredibly sensitive to public perception in this day and age.

Quote:
If I were you, I would refrain from implying anyone is "out of their mind." Debate the issue.
Actually, I'll state it again:

If you believe a fleeing truck is endangering the lives of a helicopter crew, you're out of your damn mind.

Can I make it any more clear?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
All the driver had to do was pull over. Simple as that.

Anyone killed while committing a crime gets less sympathy than innocent people would. These people were all intent on breaking any law that got in their way, now they're dead, so sad too bad.

Same for bank robbers who didn't intend to kill any tellers or guards, same for thieves breaking and entering a home but not intending to kill the home owner. These clowns knew full well there were risks in committing the crimes they were committing -- so no -- not much sympathy for them from me.
And clearly, you're incapable of even the most basic logical thought. The simple fact that they were breaking the law does not mean that any and all actions taken against them are therefore proper, even in a place like Texas. Let me repeat it again, since some people are having trouble grasping this:

Opening fire on a fleeing truck from a helicopter, when that truck is in a desolate area and posing no immediate danger to anyone, is not justifiable. The fact that such stupidity resulted in two unnecessary deaths just makes it more tragic.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 12:53 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,161,659 times
Reputation: 22182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
If anything reported in the story is untrue or debatable, the police will come out and make their side of the case. They're incredibly sensitive to public perception in this day and age.

Actually, I'll state it again:

If you believe a fleeing truck is endangering the lives of a helicopter crew, you're out of your damn mind.

Can I make it any more clear?



And clearly, you're incapable of even the most basic logical thought. The simple fact that they were breaking the law does not mean that any and all actions taken against them are therefore proper, even in a place like Texas. Let me repeat it again, since some people are having trouble grasping this:

Opening fire on a fleeing truck from a helicopter, when that truck is in a desolate area and posing no immediate danger to anyone, is not justifiable. The fact that such stupidity resulted in two unnecessary deaths just makes it more tragic.
All they had to do is pull over and stop. That's really all.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,918,008 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
If anything reported in the story is untrue or debatable, the police will come out and make their side of the case. They're incredibly sensitive to public perception in this day and age.

Actually, I'll state it again:

If you believe a fleeing truck is endangering the lives of a helicopter crew, you're out of your damn mind.

Can I make it any more clear?



And clearly, you're incapable of even the most basic logical thought. The simple fact that they were breaking the law does not mean that any and all actions taken against them are therefore proper, even in a place like Texas. Let me repeat it again, since some people are having trouble grasping this:

Opening fire on a fleeing truck from a helicopter, when that truck is in a desolate area and posing no immediate danger to anyone, is not justifiable. The fact that such stupidity resulted in two unnecessary deaths just makes it more tragic.
Without being privy to all of the details of this incident, you are in no position to judge, or determine what is or is not justifiable. Perhaps you'd like to share your proof to illustrate the police didn't have evidence that these people were dangerous criminals or a threat to others. And, I don't recall anyone even remotely implying they were a threat to those in the helicopter. As far as we know, the troopers may have saved lives by apprehending these men. But, if it makes you feel better to demonize them, knock yourself out.

Yes, you have made it perfectly clear that you are either unable or unwilling to discuss this topic without resorting to personal attacks. We are all entitled to an opinion. You don't know me, and are certainly not qualified to comment on my mental state. The fact that my opinion differs from yours does not justify your insulting comments. I'll leave it at that.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,918,008 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
All they had to do is pull over and stop. That's really all.
Exactly!
 
Old 10-29-2012, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,800 posts, read 18,563,646 times
Reputation: 8999
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
All they had to do is pull over and stop. That's really all.
So what you're saying is that their failure to do so justifies the gross overuse of force?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Without being privy to all of the details of this incident, you are in no position to judge, or determine what is or is not justifiable.
Really? That didn't stop you from doing so several posts back. Let me repost it for reference.

Quote:
Whether he's an "expert" or not, the fact remains, the police were well within their rights to demand the driver stop the vehicle. Once the driver chose to ignore their demands, he gave them probable cause to suspect illegal activity, and respond accordingly. His refusal to comply with their orders jeopardized their lives. He can blame himself for their deaths.
Talk about cognitive dissonance.

Quote:
Perhaps you'd like to share your proof to illustrate the police didn't have evidence that these people were dangerous criminals or a threat to others.
Burden is on them to show that the proof, or even probable cause, existed. That's the way we do it in this country.

Quote:
And, I don't recall anyone even remotely implying they were a threat to those in the helicopter.
Quote:
His refusal to comply with their orders jeopardized their lives. He can blame himself for their deaths.
That is the quote I'm referring to you. I read that as to say that the officer's lives were in danger. If I misinterpreted it, my apologies.

Quote:
As far as we know, the troopers may have saved lives by apprehending these men.
What lives? The truck was in a desolate area, so there was virtually no risk of the vehicle striking innocent civilians. There was a helicopter in pursuit, so no members of law enforcement were in any danger unless they needlessly put themselves there. I fail to see how these actions did anything to save any lives, at all.

Quote:
But, if it makes you feel better to demonize them, knock yourself out.
They're being demonized because they made a stupid and reckless decision that resulted in needless deaths.

Quote:
Yes, you have made it perfectly clear that you are either unable or unwilling to discuss this topic without resorting to personal attacks. We are all entitled to an opinion. You don't know me, and are certainly not qualified to comment on my mental state. The fact that my opinion differs from yours does not justify your insulting comments. I'll leave it at that.
Believe me, that's not even close to a legitimate personal attack.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,918,008 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
So what you're saying is that their failure to do so justifies the gross overuse of force?



Really? That didn't stop you from doing so several posts back. Let me repost it for reference.

Talk about cognitive dissonance.

Burden is on them to show that the proof, or even probable cause, existed. That's the way we do it in this country.

That is the quote I'm referring to you. I read that as to say that the officer's lives were in danger. If I misinterpreted it, my apologies.

What lives? The truck was in a desolate area, so there was virtually no risk of the vehicle striking innocent civilians. There was a helicopter in pursuit, so no members of law enforcement were in any danger unless they needlessly put themselves there. I fail to see how these actions did anything to save any lives, at all.

They're being demonized because they made a stupid and reckless decision that resulted in needless deaths.

Believe me, that's not even close to a legitimate personal attack.
For the umpteenth time, when police ordered the truck to stop, it should have stopped. The driver chose to ignore their orders. Two people died who would not have had they simply obeyed the orders. It's just that simple.

As for your "legitimate personal attack" in my opinion, there is no such thing. We are adults, and should be capable of discussing a topic, and if our opinions differ, agree to disagree. Mature people do not rely on personal attacks to make a point. Again, debate the issue.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,800 posts, read 18,563,646 times
Reputation: 8999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
For the umpteenth time, when police ordered the truck to stop, it should have stopped. The driver chose to ignore their orders. Two people died who would not have had they simply obeyed the orders. It's just that simple.
And this is where you've failed, yet again. I have not denied that they share some of the blame, or that they were in the wrong. None of that though, changes the fact that this cop's reaction was reckless and unjustified.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,918,008 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
And this is where you've failed, yet again. I have not denied that they share some of the blame, or that they were in the wrong. None of that though, changes the fact that this cop's reaction was reckless and unjustified.
I disagree. But, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,800 posts, read 18,563,646 times
Reputation: 8999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I disagree. But, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
You, and the DPS' own policy.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top