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Old 10-29-2012, 02:22 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
If anything reported in the story is untrue or debatable, the police will come out and make their side of the case. They're incredibly sensitive to public perception in this day and age.

Actually, I'll state it again:

If you believe a fleeing truck is endangering the lives of a helicopter crew, you're out of your damn mind.

Can I make it any more clear?



And clearly, you're incapable of even the most basic logical thought. The simple fact that they were breaking the law does not mean that any and all actions taken against them are therefore proper, even in a place like Texas. Let me repeat it again, since some people are having trouble grasping this:

Opening fire on a fleeing truck from a helicopter, when that truck is in a desolate area and posing no immediate danger to anyone, is not justifiable. The fact that such stupidity resulted in two unnecessary deaths just makes it more tragic.
There was no opening fire on the truck or the passengers. What part of the trooper was aiming for the tires aren't you grasping? It wasn't about the truck imposing a danger to anyone or the helicoptor and its passengers but trying to stop it on a possible drug smuggling suspicion or some other suspected infraction of the law. Innocent people don't flee the law.

 
Old 10-29-2012, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,752 posts, read 18,393,018 times
Reputation: 8941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
There was no opening fire on the truck or the passengers. What part of the trooper was aiming for the tires aren't you grasping?
Last time I checked, the tires were part of the truck. Are they not?

Quote:
It wasn't about the truck imposing a danger to anyone or the helicoptor and its passengers but trying to stop it on a possible drug smuggling suspicion or some other suspected infraction of the law.
Yes, I'm well aware of what the cop was trying to do. He wanted to stop the truck and decided to shoot at it. There are circumstances that would make such actions justifiable, but they were not present here.

Quote:
Innocent people don't flee the law.
Actually it happens all the time. That's another discussion though.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
Last time I checked, the tires were part of the truck. Are they not?



Yes, I'm well aware of what the cop was trying to do. He wanted to stop the truck and decided to shoot at it. There are circumstances that would make such actions justifiable, but they were not present here.



Actually it happens all the time. That's another discussion though.
Yes, tires are part of the truck. And, police routinely use strips to flatten tires during a chase. Sometimes the driver loses control of the car and the driver and/or passengers are injured or die. Whose fault is that? In this case, shots were fired from a helicopter in an attempt to stop a truck. There is always a risk when one chooses to flee from police.

No, actually it does not happen all the time. And, in this case, they were NOT innocent.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 03:23 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
Last time I checked, the tires were part of the truck. Are they not?



Yes, I'm well aware of what the cop was trying to do. He wanted to stop the truck and decided to shoot at it. There are circumstances that would make such actions justifiable, but they were not present here.



Actually it happens all the time. That's another discussion though.
So what? As I said, the trooper's target was the tires not the passengers. Why wasn't this justifiable to stop the truck from continuing on? No, most innocent people do not flee the law. In this case there were no innocents on board.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Whether he's an "expert" or not, the fact remains, the police were well within their rights to demand the driver stop the vehicle...
Dr. Geoffrey Alpert is an "expert" in police chases, I provided his credentials, and his opinion that it was "it was a reckless act" to fire on the truck...

Quote:
...Or, is the fact that they shot at a group of fleeing Mexicans enough reason for them to be vilified?...
It was a group of fleeing Guatemalans, not Mexicans...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Yes, tires are part of the truck. And, police routinely use strips to flatten tires during a chase. Sometimes the driver loses control of the car and the driver and/or passengers are injured or die. Whose fault is that? In this case, shots were fired from a helicopter in an attempt to stop a truck. There is always a risk when one chooses to flee from police.

No, actually it does not happen all the time. And, in this case, they were NOT innocent.
Spike strips are designed to let the air out of the tires at a slower rate, so that the vehicle is less likely to lose control. But I'm glad you brought up the comparison. When was the last time you heard of police shooting at the tires from a helicopter to stop a vehicle?

In your opinion, if police are justified to fire at tires of fleeing vehicles from helicopters, would you like to see it as a more commonly used method for our citizens as well?...
 
Old 10-29-2012, 06:51 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Dr. Geoffrey Alpert is an "expert" in police chases, I provided his credentials, and his opinion that it was "it was a reckless act" to fire on the truck...



It was a group of fleeing Guatemalans, not Mexicans...



Spike strips are designed to let the air out of the tires at a slower rate, so that the vehicle is less likely to lose control. But I'm glad you brought up the comparison. When was the last time you heard of police shooting at the tires from a helicopter to stop a vehicle?

In your opinion, if police are justified to fire at tires of fleeing vehicles from helicopters, would you like to see it as a more commonly used method for our citizens as well?...
It was a remote area. A helicopter chasing the truck would have made more sense than the type of vehicle one would use in the city.

Oh, if it was a group of fleeing Guatamalans fleeing rather than Mexicans that makes all the difference in the world.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 07:20 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,425 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Dr. Geoffrey Alpert is an "expert" in police chases, I provided his credentials, and his opinion that it was "it was a reckless act" to fire on the truck...
Spike strips are designed to let the air out of the tires at a slower rate, so that the vehicle is less likely to lose control. But I'm glad you brought up the comparison. When was the last time you heard of police shooting at the tires from a helicopter to stop a vehicle?
In your opinion, if police are justified to fire at tires of fleeing vehicles from helicopters, would you like to see it as a more commonly used method for our citizens as well?...
He is basing his opinion on the fact of "after the fact", now knowing there were people in the bed of the truck that the sharpshooter and other officers were unaware of.
Quote:
"In 25 years following police pursuits, I hadn't seen a situation where an officer shot a speeding vehicle from a helicopter," said Geoffrey Alpert, professor of criminology at the University of South Carolina.
and then he says
Quote:
Such action would be reasonable only if "you know for sure the person driving the car deserves to die and that there are no other occupants."
The sharpshooter was informed of drugs in the bed.

Spike strips deflate the tire at a very rapid rate, immediately, there is no slow rate of which they deflate. Many cars still lose control after having ran over spike strips. It would very more on their rate of speed when hitting these strips than anything.

Say there were no people in the bed of the truck, the tires were shot out, the driver and passenger were not hurt but captured after wrecking the vehicle, how would that effect your view of the situation?
 
Old 10-29-2012, 08:33 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
And this is where you've failed, yet again. I have not denied that they share some of the blame, or that they were in the wrong. None of that though, changes the fact that this cop's reaction was reckless and unjustified.
The criminals were refusing to stop for a reason. All they had to do is pull over.

What if they were bringing in anthrax or terrorist items to use against Americans?

Just allowing anyone to bring absolutely anything over that border is rididulous. We're at war in the Middle East -- and really who knows when the terrorists will catch on to the very porous nature of our southern border?

The fact that these criminals refused to stop even when they clearly realized there were helicopters chasing them, shows just how criminal they were.
 
Old 10-29-2012, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
It was a remote area. A helicopter chasing the truck would have made more sense than the type of vehicle one would use in the city...
An article a year ago attributed four law enforcement deaths while deploying "stop sticks" in 2011 alone. In most of the car chases I have seen, a police helicopter is present (with the news helicopters filming), and much better at keeping pace. Why would it be such a bad connotation if law enforcement would fire on a fleeing vehicle from the air, while remaining more safe themselves?

At least the Texas Troopers have airborne snipers, able to respond to occasions like this, but when was the last case you heard of for law enforcement shooting out tires from the air?...
 
Old 10-30-2012, 03:31 AM
Yac
 
5,874 posts, read 6,290,826 times
I'm ashamed at the level of "discussion" taking part here. Most of you should be too. The only other place I've seen people so intellectually dishonest is the congress, and they actually lie and spin to achieve something (not that it makes it right). I've no idea why you do it here, but it stops now before I lose any respect I have left for you.
CLOSED.
Yac.
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