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Old 10-10-2007, 07:23 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,323,136 times
Reputation: 1423

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Hi to everybody here (long post ahead)

I'm from Mexico and I live in Mexico, i've been watching closely the debates here and I hadn't dared to post before for fear of being flamed or hated but upon reading further I see that most people are pissed about illegal immigrants and not at mexicans right?

Ok, first of all what I want to express here is that I'm really sorry and sad that we as neighboors and fellow human beings are having these issues that strain our relations and make us distrust or prejudge each other.

Then I thought, most of what the average American citizen knows of Mexico comes from illegal immigrants or the media so most have a wrong idea of what is happening in Mexico right now or why things are getting bad in America so I thought, why don't discuss it? speak about all this in a constructive, civilized way.

Now I want to clearly state that I don't have the solution for this problem in my hands, neither do you, but at least speaking about it and working together is better than not doing anything isn't it?

so here are some thoughts i've had about this situation please share your opinions!

1 Things are getting a lot better in Mexico but it'll take time for us to offer living standards similar to those of the United states or Canada...

This is very true, I can tell you from my 29 years of life as a mexican, I've seen a lot of things happen, when I was a kid we had 300%!!! anual inflation rates devaluations where our currency lost more than 80% of it's value, no matter who you were or what you did, there was no escape, in these wild times the middle class was almost wiped out completely, you couldn't save, ask for a loan, request a mortgage for a house, it was simply impossible!!! this eventually made the old regime crash and we saw the dawn of democracy in Mexico (just 7 years ago mind you) this has brought economic stability, sustained growth, controlled inflation and low interest rates, which has made the mexican economy less dependant on oil and more export based, gdp growth which hadn't been fast enough to lift people out of poverty is gonna get a boost with all the reforms they are starting to approve in congress, which will allow us to continue growing at reasonable rates even if the american economy goes into a recession (something unthinkable a couple of years ago) and this is just starting, democracy has also brought competence among parties who keep a watch on their rivals thus reducing corruption. All of this will have the effect of steadily reducing immigration anually, it already started to happen and it's gonna get faster and faster, you can bet that a lot of people who is now living there will start coming back to Mexico not everybody though, but that is better than nothing

2 While it's true that there is an ugly side of uncontrolled illegal immigration, media has made it much worse than it is.

let's speak first of the bad things ok? why because these ones are who worry you the most illegal immigration brings a lot of risks because it's uncontrolled and unorganized, so this means that not only poor people running away from poverty gets to the USA but also terrorists, drug smugglers and criminals and the problem goes both ways (I don't know if you knew, but there have been serial killers and all other sorts of criminals who have been caught hiding in Mexico) there is also the increased strain of having to support additional population that is growing at blazing speeds plus the aditional cost of having to help them assimilate and a looooooong etc, I can understand PERFECTLY why you guys are pissed off, frustrated and maybe even fearful but let me tell you something, while is true that immigrants are causing problems, the problems the United States economy is currently facing are more related to other issues which we'll analyse now, and while it's true that immigrants have to do with this, there are other things that affect you heaps more than them (but obviously the government and coorporate america want to distract you with the immigration debate so when you realize what is happening is too late already)

What is causing the deterioration of America's economy? a combination of factors, as most of you will probably know our currencies are nothing more than paper without any worth what backs them up? it can be natural resources like gold, silver, oil, etc or they can be backed up by a country's exports, if you start running low on these things, but you keep printing money you'll have a phenomenon known as devaluation, devaluation leads to inflation because it makes raw materials rise in price in order to compensate that your currency is worth less.

What is happening in the USA now? well it has an accumulated deficit of $59.4 billion!!!!!! that means that you are buying $59.4 billon of products you can't afford!!! it hadn't hit you before because the dollar was used as the reserve currency (thus being equal to gold or exportrs) in most of the world's central banks, it is also the currency used for oil transactions around the world, this allowed America to live some more years of good times but now the economy is gradually facing some painful adjustments that are eroding the life standards you got accustomed to and i'm sorry to say it but it'll take a long time for you to get them back.

After second world war a new world order was stablished, where America gained the most, the entire world respected and loved you because of what you did to end the war, it also helped America leave behind the great depression it was having, but this had a hidden cost because in order to recover from recession, America had to switch it's peace economy for a war one, this made the economy grow like never before, suddendly unemployment disappeared and there was even labor shortage that got so bad, that american goverment kept putting pressure on Mexico to enact the bracero program, a working guest program yes it's true!! The weapons sale proved also to be a great business and that was the problem, because once america made this switch, it's economy has needed to find enemies and fight wars constantly in order to keep things going, a lot of innocent people has died or suffered terribly because of this, but it didn't matter to thoe making huge profits from it, this war economy continues till our days, and these people are the ones who really dictate the policies in Washington, they are also the ones who support ilegal immigration in order to further their profit and they are very hypocrate, because they are the very same people who control media and flood american citizens with information about how bad ilegal immigration is and how it is hurting american economy and jobs (which i don't doubt) but at the same time, they let them keep coming, supposedly they are being a fence and getting tougher, but it is just rethoric they are also the ones who dismantled America's manufacturing base and sent it overseas (which has had a much worse effect on economy than illegals)

Why? simple, because since this trend started America has become more and more depending on foreign goods, it doesn't matter if the company is American if a good was made in China it counts as a chinese export and you are buying it instead of selling it thus making the trade deficit bigger and bigger, so what's the solution these greedy groups thought of? very easy, let's erode our economy in order to leave it closer to third world standards so we can be more competitive and export more **** our citizens and their life standards!!! they also approved tax breaks for the wealthy (that are draining heaps more resources than illegal immigrants mind you) and started the iraq war in order to earn even more money with the sale of weapons and oil sacrifing even more resources that could be invested in health, education, infrastructure, etc.

and do you know what's the worst about this? it isn't only affecting America, it's affecting the entire world!!!! and when things get worse it'll hit hit us hard, specially Mexico and Canada and if this happen, you'll get lots more of immigrants than what you are getting now, imagine for a moment that it gets so bad that it starts forcing americans out of America and they start becoming the ilegal immigrants of other countries (it can happen yes)

AMERICA PLEASE WAKE UP DO SOMETHING TO END THIS MAD SYSTEM!!!!

It's true that immigration has became a problem and it's true that immigrants might suck some resources, but I think is unfair to fool americans making them believe ilegals are the ones to blame for all what's happening, when the government and coorporate america are destroying the american way of life waaaaay more than ilegals do, and the worst is that they are the ones who encourage ilegal immigration, don't you see? they are exploiting and abusing us all and we still fall for their ruses!!!!

Yes it is true that the Mexican government is very corrupt, but America's government is no less unfortunately I'm not an american citizen and I can't vote or do much to change things there, but I'm doing my part in Mexico to curb ilegal immigration how?

Working hard
Paying my taxes
Teaching people how to make a living (I give musical production courses)
Voting
and most importantly I refuse to bribe cops here and I report them when I'm asked for a bribe

that's it, sorry for the long post I hope it was useful please, let's get closer and work more together.

the truth is that we are all brothers, children of the same God inhabitants of the same planet, we all should have the same rights to peace, happiness, prosperity and self realization

Love, Peace, Light Harmony

Last edited by Travelling fella; 10-10-2007 at 07:31 PM..
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Old 10-10-2007, 07:35 PM
 
457 posts, read 304,592 times
Reputation: 67
Like you, I am not certain of a reasonable or viable solution. However, a GREAT first step would be for MEXICO to start taking responsibility for it's own poor and/or desperate.

I believe that although I am vehemently "anit-Illegal" in regards to the concept of Illegal immigration, have absolutely no ill-will towards the individual in most cases unless they are here committing other more serious crimes. To the contrary, they were victimized by their own country's lack of interest in supporting it's own poor preferring instead to rely on the U.S. as it's "welfare" sysem.

I think the feelings of most ant-ILLEGAL folks like myself is that we are tired of being forced to solve another country's problems with our hard-earned dollars.
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Old 10-10-2007, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,736,319 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by PApisces View Post
Like you, I am not certain of a reasonable or viable solution. However, a GREAT first step would be for MEXICO to start taking responsibility for it's own poor and/or desperate.

I believe that although I am vehemently "anit-Illegal" in regards to the concept of Illegal immigration, have absolutely no ill-will towards the individual in most cases unless they are here committing other more serious crimes. To the contrary, they were victimized by their own country's lack of interest in supporting it's own poor preferring instead to rely on the U.S. as it's "welfare" sysem.

I think the feelings of most ant-ILLEGAL folks like myself is that we are tired of being forced to solve another country's problems with our hard-earned dollars.
Unfortunately; you are correct.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:01 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,661,646 times
Reputation: 2983
Traveling Fella, you have my best wishes for your well-written post. I have nothing against Mexicans. I have been married to a person of Mexican/ Indian descent for 38 years- her ancestors actually didn't move--the border moved. Nevertheless, anyone whose roots go back that far in California, is considered "mexican" and of course the ethnicity is the same. Some of the extended family, at one time or another, has been illegal. But that was a long time ago.
I don't even particularly dislike illegal immigrants. I've known many personally, worked with them, and find their cheerfulness, honesty, and willingness to work hard, to be very admirable. I've disliked a few, but most I've met, I have felt very warmly toward. As individuals I don't blame them a bit.

But I've never met an "activist"--and it's hard to justify their defiant, in-your-face attitude of entitlement. When gratitude for the opportunities given to these illegals (which most used to have), is replaced by an ungrateful sense of entitlement, things have gone too far. The rate of immigration now is at such a point that no one can honestly say illegal immigration benefits America. It may benefit Mexico, but not us. Yet we continue to hear this message, and we are growing impatient.

I don't blame the people of Mexico, but I do blame their corrupt leadership-as well as OUR corrupt leadership. I don't dislike Mexicans--what I can't stand, to use a phrase common in Texas, is "bullsh*t". The arguments given in support of continued illegal immigration are becoming an insult to my intelligence.

I appreciated the honesty of your post, and I wish you well.....
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,077 posts, read 15,531,881 times
Reputation: 5299
Travelling fella,

Thank you for that well thought out and balanced post.

Your statements here, are what I believe as well:

Quote:
It's true that immigration has became a problem and it's true that immigrants might suck some resources, but I think is unfair to fool americans making them believe ilegals are the ones to blame for all what's happening, when the government and coorporate america are destroying the american way of life waaaaay more than ilegals do, and the worst is that they are the ones who encourage ilegal immigration, don't you see? they are exploiting and abusing us all and we still fall for their ruses!!!!

Yes it is true that the Mexican government is very corrupt, but America's government is no less unfortunately I'm not an american citizen and I can't vote or do much to change things there, but I'm doing my part in Mexico to curb ilegal immigration how?

There are many factors that send American anti-illegal folks flying right over these comments and directly in the face of Mexicans.

Government and companies are good at deflection, and they have really tapped into the hatred lately that so many Americans have towards Hispanics in general.

These comments by English Speaking Americans, I have been hearing for many years and show the pure anger for Hispanics in this country:
1) I am tired of Spanish TV
2) I am tired of hearing "Para Espanol, Oprima Numero Uno"
3) I am tired hearing Spanish at Walmart
4) I hate seeing forms printed in Spanish at the DMV
5) I am tired of my kids watching Dora the Explora
and so on....

Government, Politicians and News have tapped directly into this hate and now have Americans singing to it out in the open. Illegals fuel this fire well.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:11 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,661,646 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50Thunderdart View Post
Travelling fella,

Thank you for that well thought out and balanced post.

Your statements here, are what I believe as well:




These comments by English Speaking Americans, I have been hearing for many years and show the pure anger for Hispanics in this country:
1) I am tired of Spanish TV
2) I am tired of hearing "Para Espanol, Oprima Numero Uno"
3) I am tired hearing Spanish at Walmart
4) I hate seeing forms printed in Spanish at the DMV
5) I am tired of my kids watching Dora the Explora
and so on....

.
This is all true, and of course, like I've said many times. the racists among us will rally around an issue such as this with great enthusiasm. But you don't need to be a racist to have serious problems with the situation today.

Unfortunately, when the "little people" in any situation are taken advantage of by those in power, they often "lash out" in frustration at the "little-er people"....and in this case, that is the illegal population. They get the blame for ALL the sleaziness. Some of it they deserve; much of it isn't their fault.

I've often wondered who the illegals are getting their "P.R." advice from. It almost seems that someone is encouraging them to act in ways almost GUARANTEED to irritate the gringos. I know it isn't true, but that's what it seems like. Waving Mexican flags around is such a tiny issue, but it has a HUGE effect in ANNOYING the local population up here. Why do it? And I know that MOST Americans would feel kindly toward ANYONE they perceived as TRYING to learn English--most people would appreciate the effort. It would be nice if someone gave these small "hints" to the illegals they meet. I know many illegals who have "sensed" how to behave here among the "gringos", and they do quite well. It seems to work a lot better than being annoying.....unless, of course, you're an activist, and you WANT to be annoying. Can't help you there....

Last edited by macmeal; 10-10-2007 at 08:19 PM..
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:15 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,177,070 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
These comments by English Speaking Americans, I have been hearing for many years and show the pure anger for Hispanics in this country:
1) I am tired of Spanish TV
2) I am tired of hearing "Para Espanol, Oprima Numero Uno"
3) I am tired hearing Spanish at Walmart
4) I hate seeing forms printed in Spanish at the DMV
5) I am tired of my kids watching Dora the Explora
and so on....

Maybe its time to move to Beverly Hills? Guy, I think your getting mad for nothing really. As America's Hispanic population continues to expand, so does services for these Hispanics. We are HUGE market, there is a lot of money to be made. NBC owns Telemundo dude! In my opinion, you are wayyyy Xenophobic. Tired of watching your kids watch Dora the Explorer? c'mon dude, what is that? Are you racist or something?
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,077 posts, read 15,531,881 times
Reputation: 5299
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Maybe its time to move to Beverly Hills? Guy, I think your getting mad for nothing really. As America's Hispanic population continues to expand, so does services for these Hispanics. We are HUGE market, there is a lot of money to be made. NBC owns Telemundo dude! In my opinion, you are wayyyy Xenophobic. Tired of watching your kids watch Dora the Explorer? c'mon dude, what is that? Are you racist or something?
You read my comment wrong, I am Hispanic.

I was referring to English Speaking Americans saying these things.
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Old 10-10-2007, 08:32 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,177,070 times
Reputation: 138
Oh, LOL!!! My bad. Sorry dude. I should learn to read posts more thoroughly. I didn't even bother to read the rest of Traveling Fella's post. I'm doing homework.
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Old 10-10-2007, 09:02 PM
 
14,600 posts, read 7,563,874 times
Reputation: 8219
Default Please explain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50Thunderdart View Post
You read my comment wrong, I am Hispanic.

I was referring to English Speaking Americans saying these things.
What does this post mean??
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