U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 10-13-2007, 09:06 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
why cant we do it diplomatically? the united states has a lot of power and influence over mexico. it would be better to use diplomacy, instead of hoping that a bloody revolution would enact any change. the mexican army has all the guns. we've seen what happens when you try to revolt against the army in burma (myanmar). do you really wish that sort of situation on the people of mexico, when we have the means to use diplomacy and help solve the problem in both countries?
If we have so much influence over Mexico, why can't we get them to stop sending their poor people to us? We can't even get them to take back their citizens that are already here! Do you honestly think that if we would only sit down and tell the Mexican government that they need to change that they would listen to us? Why should they? Furthermore, we don't like it when they tell us that we are supposed to accept their neverending stream of illegals without complaint, why should they like it if we tell them to quit being so corrupt and provide a reasonable standard of living for their people?
No one can force change in Mexico except the Mexicans themselves. If they value their country so cheaply that they are not willing to take risks to reclaim it, then they deserve the government they have.

 
Old 10-13-2007, 09:07 PM
 
Location: In an illegal immigrant free part of the country.
2,087 posts, read 1,052,974 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
excuse me? who am i flaming?

you are correct. we do have a path to citizenship. it is costly and takes many years, in most cases. we create illegal immigration by making our path to citizenship unattainable to the people that would benefit from it most: the poor and the desperate. if we reformed our immigration policies, we would eliminate the "criminal" class we create.
Hey Ghost would you be in favor of America having the same immigration laws as Mexico? What has created the illegal immigration problem is Mexico and others have decided America is a dumping ground for their citizens they do not want.
 
Old 10-13-2007, 11:47 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,157,153 times
Reputation: 138
Its not that they don't want them.. the people are desperate. Most of their choices are simple. Stay in Mexico, die or have no future or come to the U.S and have a shot at success. It is really the Mexican Governments fault for not being as Socialistic as our democrats
 
Old 10-14-2007, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Southern California
57 posts, read 172,845 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Its not that they don't want them.. the people are desperate. Most of their choices are simple. Stay in Mexico, die or have no future or come to the U.S and have a shot at success.
There are roughly 5 billion people worldwide in similar circumstances. That is what tends to happen when you build a really nice, safe, affluent country where everybody wants to live.

We need to become much more selective about who we allow inside the gates.
 
Old 10-14-2007, 12:13 AM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,157,153 times
Reputation: 138
Yea, there are 5 Billion people worldwide in similar positions. But guess what, do they border the United States? You must understand how tempting it is to them.
 
Old 10-14-2007, 07:49 AM
 
457 posts, read 302,098 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Its not that they don't want them.. the people are desperate. Most of their choices are simple. Stay in Mexico, die or have no future or come to the U.S and have a shot at success. It is really the Mexican Governments fault for not being as Socialistic as our democrats
I absolutely agree with you. Desperate people do desperate things. The blame rests squarely on mexico's govt's shoulders; We were just foolish enough to let it go on as long as we did.
 
Old 10-14-2007, 08:34 AM
 
1,510 posts, read 709,122 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
I definitely have an opinion on those subjects but I don't want to hijack the thread so I won't comment on that question.
no worries. i can understand both sides of the argument. although my opinion tends to favor a more humanitarian approach, when it's warranted.

Quote:
I will say however, immigrants should only be allowed in to the United States based on what they have to offer the United States. Whether a potential immigrant could prosper or improve his life by coming here should not enter the equation or even be considered.
what about what they HAVE offered the united states and what they continue to offer the united states? cheap labor. as citizens, we only see their cheap labor as unfair competition, when it is really our own central banking system (communism at work!) that has devalued the dollar, leaving our wages low while the cost of living rises. in the mid-20th century, houses were often under 100k, and a single working man could support a family and afford a house. because of inflation in both the dollar and housing market, this is no longer true. so we turn our outrage towards the (seemingly) most obvious target. which shouldn't be, in my opinion.

Quote:
As far as diplomatic efforts go, sure if a phone call can improve someone's lot in life that's fine. But the internal affairs of other nations should be for the most part none of our business. If it helps you understand my position I don't believe in foreign aid at all. No military aid, no economic aid, no humanitarian aid. At all, ever.

i can understand this argument. i like ron paul's idea of non-intervention, to a degree. but the fact of the matter is, mexican nationals are coming to america. that is involvement on both ends. at this point, if we ignore it, we're not doing ourselves any favors.
 
Old 10-14-2007, 08:45 AM
 
1,510 posts, read 709,122 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
If we have so much influence over Mexico, why can't we get them to stop sending their poor people to us?
if that is what you think is happening, i can understand your opinion a lot more. but that is not what is happening. the nationals are coming here on their own accord, and the government is doing nothing to stop them. that does not mean the government is sending them!

Quote:
We can't even get them to take back their citizens that are already here!
that is untrue. it is OUR choice to deport aliens, and the government of the country that we deport to has no say in whether or not they accept their own nationals back. the problem is, they cross over again next chance they get.

Quote:
Do you honestly think that if we would only sit down and tell the Mexican government that they need to change that they would listen to us? Why should they?
yes, i do. because we have a lot of influence on their economy through trade practices and immigration policies. if we stopped dealing with the government, and found means of putting money into the pockets of the people (like letting them work stateside for cheap!), then the government power would falter sooner or later. any unfair taxes they imposed on their citizens, we could impose on their exports. it's not a difficult scenario.

Quote:
Furthermore, we don't like it when they tell us that we are supposed to accept their neverending stream of illegals without complaint, why should they like it if we tell them to quit being so corrupt and provide a reasonable standard of living for their people?
they dont need to like it. their people are coming here because of their failing government. they are in no position to be making demands. we are. and we have the political influence and wealth to back it up. now we just need a real president and congress who can make it happen.

Quote:
No one can force change in Mexico except the Mexicans themselves.
that is an outright untruth. the US could nuke mexico, and that would force quite a bit of change. im not saying thats the proper course of action, just using a theoretical situation to prove your claim inaccurate.

Quote:
If they value their country so cheaply that they are not willing to take risks to reclaim it, then they deserve the government they have.
they are taking risks to reclaim it. the zapatista army is the only real rebel force that is armed. and theres death, and no progress. when the pan party was elected (vicente fox), that was the first time a pro-people political party had been voted in in a lonnnnng time. even he was unable to make a profound impact. the system is corrupt beyond internal repair, short of a governmental dissolution.
 
Old 10-14-2007, 08:46 AM
 
1,510 posts, read 709,122 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by citigirl View Post
Hey Ghost would you be in favor of America having the same immigration laws as Mexico?
no. i dont favor either country's immigration laws. what is your point?

Quote:
What has created the illegal immigration problem is Mexico and others have decided America is a dumping ground for their citizens they do not want.
the people are coming to america on their own accord. do you really not know this?
 
Old 10-14-2007, 08:48 AM
 
1,510 posts, read 709,122 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by PApisces View Post
I absolutely agree with you. Desperate people do desperate things. The blame rests squarely on mexico's govt's shoulders; We were just foolish enough to let it go on as long as we did.
absolutely. so to assume that picking off the immigrants one by one is going to stop the flow is unreasonable. we need to tackle the problem at its source, the corrupt government and damaged economy of mexico.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top