Why "Pro-ILLEGAL"? (visa, born, illegal immigrants, laws)

[PApisces]

I have a question for all those that believe that ILLEGALS ought to have "rights" to bypass the Immigration laws of the United States. The anti-ILLEGAL proponents are questioned endlessly to explain our viewpoints.

I would like to know what makes the pro-ILLEGALS feel that having ILLEGALS here is beneficial, why offering "amnesty" is "good" for the US, and why it is felt that we, as AMERICANS ought to be forced to pay for the undeniable economic DRAIN that ILLEGALS place on our society.
Discuss...

[happymom4]

This should be interesting

[ArizonaBear]

Probably because Mexico; the biggest source of illegal immigrants, teaches its children that our Southwest still belongs to them, despite being soundly defeated 140 years ago.

And too; a trait of Mexican culture is flipping off authority........especially being that SOB is so crooked and dysfunctional so the reasons are understandable.

[ducter]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

Probably because Mexico; the biggest source of illegal immigrants, teaches its children that our Southwest still belongs to them, despite being soundly defeated 140 years ago.

And too; a trait of Mexican culture is flipping off authority........especially being that SOB is so crooked and dysfunctional so the reasons are understandable.

Our new society is to moan and groan until you get you way, right and wrong dont matter. There is an "advocate" group for every minority. Judges and the law are for sale, every law seems to now be debateable.

Also much of their defense cites history, and I say back...would you like to rewrite history and laws all the way back to biblical times?

[macmeal]

Our new liberal society, which largely took shape at the same time I did (my teenage years--the 1960's) basically holds that EVERYONE has a right to a good life, to freedom from being judged or criticized, to freedom from pain and discomfort, and the right to "be himself". NO ONE should have to take any "Sh*t" off of ANYONE. It's little wonder that this has come to include illegals. They are no different, in this regard, from "single Moms", from "absentee Fathers", from couples "living together", from people wth "substance abuse problems", with residents of the "ghetto", and with the "knuckleheads" in the back of the classroom who "flunk out".
EVERY ONE of these groups was once harshly criticized and ostracized by "proper" society (some, in fact, were actually living in violation of the law)....and EVERY ONE of these has now been made "acceptable", and to criticize them is now seen as "mean, hard-hearted, or racist". Illegal immigrants are no different- they are seen as "good people who happen to have been born into a bad situation".

Whether or not our new "kind and liberal" society will work over the long haul is a good question. Could a "kind and caring" society have tamed a frontier, survived a depression, or won two world wars? Quite possibly it coudn't have. But that's where we are now. Illegals, along with myriad others of life's "less fortunate"---or even just "people with problems"-are now protected by our sympathy, humanity, and caring. How to "cut back" on this and still be a decent society is the biq question facing us today....

[faith10]

What I hear from illegals in the media is "we are coming over here and working hard for the U.S. (Big business), to better our lives and make money or we would not be here." Also in the media they call Americans lazy.

Reason that pro-illegals are for illegals is just what Michael Chertof and others say: Illegals make big money for pro-illegal attorneys, pro-illegal rights groups, pro-illegals business groups such as Big businesses and unions....the list goes on!

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by faith10

What I hear from illegals in the media is "we are coming over here and working hard for the U.S. (Big business), and to better our lives or to make money or we wouldn't be here." Also in the media they call Americans 'lazy'.

Reason that pro-illegals are for illegals is that as Michael Chertof said along with others; illegals make big money for pro-illegal attorneys, pro-illegal rights groups, pro-illegals business groups such as Big businesses and unions....the list goes on.

This is all true---illegal labor is esentially nothing more nor less than "black-market" labor....just like black-market tires, clothing, etc. To curtail or eliminate illegal labor, you're going to have to step in and "artificially" (by laws, etc) thwart the "natural market forces". The question then becomes, how much are you willing to go along with these "natural market forces" if it means reducing your OWN standard of living?. If you're an American wage earner, this is of vital importance. As an American employer, you'll see things entirely differently. To YOU, illegal immigrants bring many benefits and cost savings. To the wage earner, it means job loss and income reduction.

[PApisces]

I appreciate all of your opinions, but, I am REALLY curious to see what those who think ILLEGAL immigrants do NOT harm our Country and that they are a "Good" idea have to say. :-)

Of course "Pro-ILLEGAL" supporters never seem to do anything but ask rhetorical questions and try and attack our positions. That's what the purpose of THIS thread is designed to accomplish.

[GypsySoul22]

I think the only people who will be pro-illegals are 1) the wealthy business owners-- making money by employing them at low wages (thus cutting down on employing Americans at fair wages=profits), 2) illegals themselves who come from countries where they are not able to survive financially (and where they have been told 'go to America' by their irresponsible upper classes & governments or 3) the rich who live behind gated communities where the closest they come to an 'illegal' is when Jose cuts the lawn. (Maybe 1 & 2 are the same, who knows..?)

Good topic, though. Of course, you run the risk of being called 'a racist,' which is the last ditch 'equalizer' of the person with no other argument.

[sponger42]

Originally Posted by PApisces

(1) I would like to know what makes the pro-ILLEGALS feel that having ILLEGALS here is beneficial,
(2) why offering "amnesty" is "good" for the US,
(3) and why it is felt that we, as AMERICANS ought to be forced to pay for the undeniable economic DRAIN that ILLEGALS place on our society.
Discuss...

I am not pro-illegal immigration. I favor immigration and the following policies:
- a sealed border
- employement-based legal immigration tied to unemployment rates (quotas no greater than 0.5% of the US population per year.)
- the elimination of family-based immigration (excluding immediate relatives)
- fines for entry without inspection (illegal border-crossing) and a visa program to allow those without criminial records, who have lived and worked here, to become permanent residents after paying the fine, additional fees, and back-taxes.

To answer your questions:

(1) An expanding base of motivated laborers is essential to economic growth. Birth rates among later-generation immigrants are insufficient to replace the current population and expand the labor pool. This leads to economic stagnation without an infusion of new labor. Naturally, it's preferable that this new labor come in the form of documented immigrants, but immigration quotas are currently eaten up (90%) by family-based immigrants, who tend to be less productive than those who immigrate for economic reasons.

(2) The pool of illegal immigrant labor is employed at below-market and below-minimum wage. Employers do not pay taxes on illegal laborers, and the entire situation of illegal immigrant labor depresses prices, depresses wages, and burdens social services without paying in the necessary taxes to maintain and expand those social services. Legalizing the illegal immigrant labor pool would bring them into the tax system, raise the cost of labor, and eliminate most of the negative economic consequences. It would be cheaper than deportation. It would do less economic damage than deportation, and it would bring in revenue through fines, back taxes, and new taxes.

(3) "Amnesty" eliminates the burden on tax-paying legal residents by shifting the taxes onto the untaxed illegal labor and their employers. It will mean some depression in industries dependent on manual labor as the cost of labor increases, but that is better than the sudden unavailablility of labor due to masss deportation, and much better than the current status quo.

Were the unemployment rate at 10% or higher, deportation might be a better economic option. In fact, that is why Mexico is all to happy too ship their excess labor here. Their corrupt political system has suppressed economic growth and created an excess of labor and high unemployment. They are "exporting/deporting" their labor to the United States to balance their labor surplus. The United State's relatively open and successful economic and political system has created a labor shortage (Unemployment at 4.6%), we can take advantage of our Neighboring country's labor surplus through an intelligent and controlled immigration policy coupled with sealed borders. By bringing in documented laborers, we fuel our economic engine. However, by enforcing low mainly family-based immigration quotas, we transform the incoming laborers into illegal undocumented untaxable labor. Therefore, it is the artificially low employment-based immigration quotas coupled with the open border which causes our current economic imbalance. To solve it, we should seal the border, increase employment-based immigration quotas, and start a process to legalize illegal aliens within the country who can prove that they are gainfully employed and have not comitted any crimes (besides entry without inspection or visa overstays)