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Old 10-17-2007, 10:26 AM
 
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illegals...doesnt matter where there from they are illegal.
Why do I have a feeling this thread was posted to start the racist chant?

 
Old 10-17-2007, 10:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
The citizens of Mexico have done nothing to deserve being born into poverty in Mexico.
So why don't they change their country instead of ours? There is this thing called voting...
 
Old 10-17-2007, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Your mind
2,923 posts, read 4,485,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducter View Post
illegals...doesnt matter where there from they are illegal.
Why do I have a feeling this thread was posted to start the racist chant?
I'm not trying to invoke racism as much as I'm trying to "dig down underneath," so to speak, trying to see whether people's main opposition to illegal immigration has more to do with the illegality or with the poorness and Mexican-ness. It wasn't a good question though because even if someone is more concerned about the latter they probably aren't going to just come out and say it. But it's been an interesting discussion.
 
Old 10-17-2007, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Your mind
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Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
So why don't they change their country instead of ours? There is this thing called voting...
What if the choice is between Identical Human who's Against Gay Marriage and Identical Human who's For Gay Marriage, sort of like here in the USA?
 
Old 10-17-2007, 10:41 AM
 
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OIC...yes you are so right, that is a great comparison.

BTW, Vicente Fox has been hawking his book all over the USA and I heard him claiming Mexico has the 7th largest economy in the world or some such lofty figure. I believe it also has the world's richest man. Also Mexican Citizens are sending billions home from the USA while not paying for schools, hospitals, insurance, driver's licenses etc. So much for the poverty theory..
 
Old 10-17-2007, 10:48 AM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,965,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
I'm not trying to invoke racism as much as I'm trying to "dig down underneath," so to speak, trying to see whether people's main opposition to illegal immigration has more to do with the illegality or with the poorness and Mexican-ness. It wasn't a good question though because even if someone is more concerned about the latter they probably aren't going to just come out and say it. But it's been an interesting discussion.

It's all inter-related. Poorness and illegality tend to go hand in hand.

Again, as a liberal that puts the needs of the poor and middle class of this country FIRST, I am staunchly opposed to illegal immigration. Kind of like Cesar Chavez. The effects of illegal immigration are usually borne disproportionately by the poorer classes, who must deal first hand with gang violence, deteriorating neighborhoods, school crowding, loss of jobs and wages, longer waits at government clinics, victims of crimes, etc. etc. etc.

The "illegality" part means these new immigrants 1) haven't been screened for disease, criminal background, etc., and 2) haven't proven that there IS a need for their labor in the communities they settle in.

Both are essential functions of immigration laws.

Life is an eternal struggle for resources. Those with abundant supply can watch from above while the lower classes fight amongst themselves, and now the "newcomers," for the crap that has trickled down to them from the top. When it comes down to it, it is easy for the well-off to play humanitarian. However, it won't be THEIR daughters and sons being molested by an illegal criminal that "slipped by," due to lax enforcement or THEIR job taken away by someone who would work for 1/2 the price and 100% less benefits. THEIR teenage son won't be killed in MS-13 gang crossfire, and THEIR children won't struggle to learn in a classroom where 80% of the students don't know English.
 
Old 10-17-2007, 10:50 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
I'm not trying to invoke racism as much as I'm trying to "dig down underneath," so to speak, trying to see whether people's main opposition to illegal immigration has more to do with the illegality or with the poorness and Mexican-ness. It wasn't a good question though because even if someone is more concerned about the latter they probably aren't going to just come out and say it. But it's been an interesting discussion.
It's obvious that this is the case, as I've said before. It's really a racist's dream--to find an identifiable "ethnic" or racial group who JUST HAPPENS to really be doing something "bad".....You can "jump all over them", and yet claim not to be racist, but only a "concerned citizen"---NEAT !

No one, as you say, is likely to admit to this. It thus becomes our ongoing task to separate the very legitimate legal and social issues from the "racist" ones, and to have the strength of mind to persevere in the matter, despite the fact that racists may "go along for the ride" with you.
 
Old 10-17-2007, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Your mind
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Alright...

I should make it clear that I'm not PRO illegal immigration. It's not a good thing, in ways it's bad for both the immigrants and people here, but I don't think the solution is to punish people for trying to have a better life. I don't know what the solution is... it's just that there seems to be so much hatred on this particular forum. My issue is that, if we're talking about solutions to the problem, maybe we should be thinking about both what's best for THEM and for US, instead of just what's best for US at the expense of THEM, with perhaps some preference given to "US," "THEM" being those who've committed a "crime" that's never been considered to be particularly heinous or evil, as far as I'm aware.
 
Old 10-17-2007, 10:58 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
It's all inter-related. Poorness and illegality tend to go hand in hand.
Life is an eternal struggle for resources. Those with abundant supply can watch from above while the lower classes fight amongst themselves, and now the "newcomers," for the crap that has trickled down to them from the top. When it comes down to it, it is easy for the well-off to play humanitarian. However, it won't be THEIR daughters and sons being molested by an illegal criminal that "slipped by," due to lax enforcement or THEIR job taken away by someone who would work for 1/2 the price and 100% less benefits. THEIR teenage son won't be killed in MS-13 gang crossfire, and THEIR children won't struggle to learn in a classroom where 80% of the students don't know English.
Absolutely on-target. Easy for someone to belittle economic troubles, when they've never "punched a time clock" to make a living, and have never even KNOWN someone who has. In their world, what's good for big business, is good for America, and just happens to be good for them personally. The rest of it, as you say, is just so much "theory" to them, and it's up to the "little people" to work things out for themselves---might even help them "build character"...and "keep the working class from getting too complacent". Sounds like a good idea, when you're exempt....

Last edited by macmeal; 10-17-2007 at 11:25 AM..
 
Old 10-17-2007, 11:08 AM
 
16,092 posts, read 35,784,302 times
Reputation: 6264
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
It's obvious that this is the case, as I've said before. It's really a racist's dream--to find an identifiable "ethnic" or racial group who JUST HAPPENS to really be doing something "bad".....You can "jump all over them", and yet claim not to be racist, but only a "concerned citizen"---NEAT !

No one, as you say, is likely to admit to this. It thus becomes our ongoing task to separate the very legitimate legal and social issues from the "racist" ones, and to have the strength of mind to persevere in the matter, despite the fact that racists may "go along for the ride" with you.
You have a good point macmeal - some of my longtime hispanic friends are starting to get 'looks' and feel a bit of heat over what the illegals are doing. That is not fair - however when any group of any race decides they are above obeying any laws and then make demands if they are asked to do so, well, other groups are going to get angry.
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