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Old 12-27-2012, 10:28 PM
 
50,753 posts, read 26,770,684 times
Reputation: 15887

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Knowing how many of us in Arizona think and do things; many of the ranchers WILL take matters into their own hands if the cops and politicians don't step up.
"us in Arizona?"

You live in a border county or border town?

If the ranchers were gonna do something, they would've done it already. Besides, do what? What can they do?
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,075 posts, read 1,839,485 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
Here's part of the problems. An immigrant {illegal} came to America years ago, obtained a job, has worked for years, paid his/her taxes, and was found to be here illegally. He/she has family {wife/husband/daughter/son} in Mexico. Authorities want to deport him/her after being here for many years. He/she wishes and prays for citizenship for himself/herself and family living in Mexico.

As long as this illegal immigrant has committed no offenses other than misdemeanors {traffic/parking, etc} let's allow citizenship to him/her, allow his immediate family temporary visas, and see how they behave themselves. If they do not, then deport.

I've never been in a position where a border separated myself from my family, but I can only imagine how heart wrenching it must be. I believe all human beings deserve an equal chance or opportunity in what life has to offer for that person or people. Being compassionate and having understanding of other peoples situations is truly humanitarian.

You say Obama wants amnesty for all illegals, well, Bush 43 wanted the same except his party didn't.
I do realize that there are many people who think like you do, you want no more immigrants coming into the USA at all, and I can respect that opinion too. But there is a way to work through differences we might have by talking about the issues, and not just during election cycles.
Oh hell, that brought a tear to my eye. Why don't we just do away with borders. Just let them all bring
anyone they want. All thier buddies, as much dope as they can carry & don't forget the livestock.

We can tell all those OTHER people that waited years to come here to stick it up thier a-- because,
after all, they aren't compassionate enough. We can also say "hey, you just were to damn dumb to
break the law and come here illegally, so, just wait a few more years" . Or, how about this one, we
tell every immigrant in the USA "you go home now, because, you didn't break enough of our law's and
all those that came here illegally (from Mexico) had a bad "situation and miss thier family". Besides
all that, Bush 43 wanted amnesty so, to bad for you legal people.

Just out of curisioty, how many illegal's do you have living in your home ? How much of your paycheck
do you donate, being as it's so heart wrenching and all. Would you be willing to move to Juarez ?

When the economy tanks, and it will, we will start to work through all those "differences" you are
talking about. I just don't think it's going to turn out to your way of thinking. The country might not
make it so well until the next election cycle.
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:06 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,353 posts, read 5,996,295 times
Reputation: 2279
Default Alabama Immigration Law Causing Produce To Rot In The Fields

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwebbster View Post
Oh hell, that brought a tear to my eye. Why don't we just do away with borders. Just let them all bring
anyone they want. All thier buddies, as much dope as they can carry & don't forget the livestock.

We can tell all those OTHER people that waited years to come here to stick it up thier a-- because,
after all, they aren't compassionate enough. We can also say "hey, you just were to damn dumb to
break the law and come here illegally, so, just wait a few more years" . Or, how about this one, we
tell every immigrant in the USA "you go home now, because, you didn't break enough of our law's and
all those that came here illegally (from Mexico) had a bad "situation and miss thier family". Besides
all that, Bush 43 wanted amnesty so, to bad for you legal people.

Just out of curisioty, how many illegal's do you have living in your home ? How much of your paycheck
do you donate, being as it's so heart wrenching and all. Would you be willing to move to Juarez ?

When the economy tanks, and it will, we will start to work through all those "differences" you are
talking about. I just don't think it's going to turn out to your way of thinking. The country might not
make it so well until the next election cycle.
Please keep in mind that the jobs people like yourself say are being taken away by illegals are the jobs that most Americans do not, or will not do, or do not want.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bush proposes legal status for illegal immigrants - politics | NBC News

Alabama Immigration Law Causing Produce To Rot In The Fields
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:19 AM
 
37,017 posts, read 16,417,015 times
Reputation: 9958
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
Here's part of the problems. An immigrant {illegal} came to America years ago, obtained a job, has worked for years, paid his/her taxes, and was found to be here illegally. He/she has family {wife/husband/daughter/son} in Mexico. Authorities want to deport him/her after being here for many years. He/she wishes and prays for citizenship for himself/herself and family living in Mexico.

As long as this illegal immigrant has committed no offenses other than misdemeanors {traffic/parking, etc} let's allow citizenship to him/her, allow his immediate family temporary visas, and see how they behave themselves. If they do not, then deport.

I've never been in a position where a border separated myself from my family, but I can only imagine how heart wrenching it must be. I believe all human beings deserve an equal chance or opportunity in what life has to offer for that person or people. Being compassionate and having understanding of other peoples situations is truly humanitarian.

You say Obama wants amnesty for all illegals, well, Bush 43 wanted the same except his party didn't.
I do realize that there are many people who think like you do, you want no more immigrants coming into the USA at all, and I can respect that opinion too. But there is a way to work through differences we might have by talking about the issues, and not just during election cycles.
How was your example of an illegal immigrant able to work if he/she didn't commit the felony of using fake or stolen ID to do so or was paid under the table and didn't pay any income taxes? Do Americans just get off the hook for felony offenses just because they have family? Where is your humanitariasm for Americans who have had their jobs taken by these people and their taxes going through the roof to cover their social costs? Should an American lawbreaker just be forgiven for evading the law based on how long they were able to evade the law?

Where in the world did you get the idea that Benicar or any other members of this forum don't want anymore immigrants coming to our country? None of us have a problem with immigrants that come here legally in controlled and diversified numbers.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:23 AM
 
37,017 posts, read 16,417,015 times
Reputation: 9958
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
Please keep in mind that the jobs people like yourself say are being taken away by illegals are the jobs that most Americans do not, or will not do, or do not want.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bush proposes legal status for illegal immigrants - politics | NBC News

Alabama Immigration Law Causing Produce To Rot In The Fields
Oh please, your claims that illegal immigrants are only doing jobs that Americans won't do have been debunked in here so many times. As for agricultural jobs only 3% of illegal immigrants are doing them. The other 97% are doing jobs that Americans have always done.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:24 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 13,021,541 times
Reputation: 5905
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
Please keep in mind that the jobs people like yourself say are being taken away by illegals are the jobs that most Americans do not, or will not do, or do not want.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bush proposes legal status for illegal immigrants - politics | NBC News

Alabama Immigration Law Causing Produce To Rot In The Fields
Then the farmers need to pay good enough wages or get legal Mexican workers by visa to come here. Just that the farmers WILL be in the hook if 1 of their visa holders gets in trouble here in the US.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 16,251,399 times
Reputation: 3029
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
Here's part of the problems. An immigrant {illegal} came to America years ago, obtained a job, has worked for years, paid his/her taxes, and was found to be here illegally. He/she has family {wife/husband/daughter/son} in Mexico. Authorities want to deport him/her after being here for many years. He/she wishes and prays for citizenship for himself/herself and family living in Mexico.
You still haven't indicated how our laws are outdated, or what changes should be made. Apparently, you believe the "problem" is the fact that the U.S. has the audacity to have immigration laws. Don't all sovereign nations regulate immigration and dictate who may or may not enter? Do you oppose immigration laws for all countries, or just the USA?

Are you actually suggesting we should grant citizenship to any Mexican who manages to breach our border security and live here undetected for years? And, his/her entire family living outside this country should be rewarded for their lawlessness? Is that your idea of immigration reform? Are you serious?

Have you ever read Mexico's immigration laws, which, by the way, they actually enforce? Heck, unlike the US, in Mexico, children must be citizens to attend their public schools. Their taxpayers aren't being forced to pay billions of dollars annually to educate illegal alien children, the majority whom squander that opportunity and our money by failing to even complete high school. Furthermore, Mexico doesn't want foreigners living there unless they earn a specific amount monthly. Unlike the US, they don't want foreigners to be a burden on their taxpayers. But, they damn sure have no problem dumping their illiterate underclass on our taxpayers. Talk about hypocrisy!

I suggest your illegal alien return to Mexico, where, unlike the US, the unemployment rate is low, and their middle class is growing by leaps and bounds. Chances are, he/she has scammed enough money from U.S. taxpayers for the entire family to live quite comfortably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
As long as this illegal immigrant has committed no offenses other than misdemeanors {traffic/parking, etc} let's allow citizenship to him/her, allow his immediate family temporary visas, and see how they behave themselves. If they do not, then deport.
Sorry, but EVERY employed illegal alien is committing a felony. They are either using a stolen or fake ID (felony), or are working under the table committing tax evasion (felony). So, other than minor children, none would qualify for your "no offenses other than misdemeanors." As for temporary visas, do you actually not realize at least 40% of illegal aliens are visa overstays? Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
I've never been in a position where a border separated myself from my family, but I can only imagine how heart wrenching it must be. I believe all human beings deserve an equal chance or opportunity in what life has to offer for that person or people. Being compassionate and having understanding of other peoples situations is truly humanitarian.
It can't be too heart-wrenching given the vast numbers who leave their families in their homeland only to start "new" families once here.

The U.S. cannot be the humanitarian dumping ground for every person in the world seeking a better life. Why should we offer opportunities to foreigners to the detriment of our own citizens? That's not compassion. It's stupidity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
You say Obama wants amnesty for all illegals, well, Bush 43 wanted the same except his party didn't. I do realize that there are many people who think like you do, you want no more immigrants coming into the USA at all, and I can respect that opinion too. But there is a way to work through differences we might have by talking about the issues, and not just during election cycles.
Yes, Bush tried to pass amnesty. Now, Obama is doing the same. I disagreed with Bush, and I disagree with Obama. Contrary to your belief, my opposition to amnesty is not determined by which party occupies the White House. And, don't assume I am a Republican or a conservative simply because I oppose illegal immigration and amnesty.

Did I say I oppose legal immigration? No, I did not. I oppose illegal immigration. There is a difference. Unfortunately, illegal aliens have created a problem for legal immigrants. In fact, legal immigrants have been thrown under the bus, while illegal aliens are given preferential treatment. But, we can't continue to admit 1 million legal immigrants while untold millions are living here illegally, and countless others continue to enter illegally. No country could sustain such massive numbers.

I have done much more than simply "talk about" this issue. Nor is my activism limited to election cycles. Again, don't assume.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,353 posts, read 5,996,295 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You still haven't indicated how our laws are outdated, or what changes should be made. Apparently, you believe the "problem" is the fact that the U.S. has the audacity to have immigration laws. Don't all sovereign nations regulate immigration and dictate who may or may not enter? Do you oppose immigration laws for all countries, or just the USA?

Are you actually suggesting we should grant citizenship to any Mexican who manages to breach our border security and live here undetected for years? And, his/her entire family living outside this country should be rewarded for their lawlessness? Is that your idea of immigration reform? Are you serious?

Have you ever read Mexico's immigration laws, which, by the way, they actually enforce? Heck, unlike the US, in Mexico, children must be citizens to attend their public schools. Their taxpayers aren't being forced to pay billions of dollars annually to educate illegal alien children, the majority whom squander that opportunity and our money by failing to even complete high school. Furthermore, Mexico doesn't want foreigners living there unless they earn a specific amount monthly. Unlike the US, they don't want foreigners to be a burden on their taxpayers. But, they damn sure have no problem dumping their illiterate underclass on our taxpayers. Talk about hypocrisy!

I suggest your illegal alien return to Mexico, where, unlike the US, the unemployment rate is low, and their middle class is growing by leaps and bounds. Chances are, he/she has scammed enough money from U.S. taxpayers for the entire family to live quite comfortably.



Sorry, but EVERY employed illegal alien is committing a felony. They are either using a stolen or fake ID (felony), or are working under the table committing tax evasion (felony). So, other than minor children, none would qualify for your "no offenses other than misdemeanors." As for temporary visas, do you actually not realize at least 40% of illegal aliens are visa overstays? Please.



It can't be too heart-wrenching given the vast numbers who leave their families in their homeland only to start "new" families once here.

The U.S. cannot be the humanitarian dumping ground for every person in the world seeking a better life. Why should we offer opportunities to foreigners to the detriment of our own citizens? That's not compassion. It's stupidity.



Yes, Bush tried to pass amnesty. Now, Obama is doing the same. I disagreed with Bush, and I disagree with Obama. Contrary to your belief, my opposition to amnesty is not determined by which party occupies the White House. And, don't assume I am a Republican or a conservative simply because I oppose illegal immigration and amnesty.

Did I say I oppose legal immigration? No, I did not. I oppose illegal immigration. There is a difference. Unfortunately, illegal aliens have created a problem for legal immigrants. In fact, legal immigrants have been thrown under the bus, while illegal aliens are given preferential treatment. But, we can't continue to admit 1 million legal immigrants while untold millions are living here illegally, and countless others continue to enter illegally. No country could sustain such massive numbers.

I have done much more than simply "talk about" this issue. Nor is my activism limited to election cycles. Again, don't assume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You don't have to be a legislator to have an opinion. If you believe our immigration policies should be reformed, and are old and outdated, why can't you offer an explanation? I also believe we should streamline the process by cutting the red tape. But, that should not preclude the enforcement of our current laws.

I disagree with Obama on this issue. He wants to grant amnesty to all illegal aliens, with the exception of a few "violent" criminals. If I'm not mistaken, most of our prisons are populated by people who committed non-violent acts. Yet, he wants to give non-violent illegal aliens a free pass. How is that fair?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
Since I'm not a legislator, I won't make my views of easier legal immigration public on a forum, but I do believe in reforms of old and outdated policies. Streamlining the process. I believe Obama is on the correct path to deny certain illegal immigrants a stay of any type, those with criminal backgrounds, and so forth.
I have already stated my opinion, you must have missed it.
I'll say again, I believe Obama has the correct approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
Here's part of the problems. An immigrant {illegal} came to America years ago, obtained a job, has worked for years, paid his/her taxes, and was found to be here illegally. He/she has family {wife/husband/daughter/son} in Mexico. Authorities want to deport him/her after being here for many years. He/she wishes and prays for citizenship for himself/herself and family living in Mexico.

As long as this illegal immigrant has committed no offenses other than misdemeanors {traffic/parking, etc} let's allow citizenship to him/her, allow his immediate family temporary visas, and see how they behave themselves. If they do not, then deport.

I've never been in a position where a border separated myself from my family, but I can only imagine how heart wrenching it must be. I believe all human beings deserve an equal chance or opportunity in what life has to offer for that person or people. Being compassionate and having understanding of other peoples situations is truly humanitarian.

You say Obama wants amnesty for all illegals, well, Bush 43 wanted the same except his party didn't.
I do realize that there are many people who think like you do, you want no more immigrants coming into the USA at all, and I can respect that opinion too. But there is a way to work through differences we might have by talking about the issues, and not just during election cycles.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:21 PM
 
37,017 posts, read 16,417,015 times
Reputation: 9958
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
I have already stated my opinion, you must have missed it.
I'll say again, I believe Obama has the correct approach.
Yes, it's always the right approach to allow millions of illegal immigrants to remain here inspite of 23 million Americans out of work and to reward lawbreakers for their crimes. That worked out so well in 1986 that we have at least 4 times the number of illegal immigrants here today.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 16,251,399 times
Reputation: 3029
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
I have already stated my opinion, you must have missed it.
I'll say again, I believe Obama has the correct approach.
Again, you have still not explained how our laws are outdated. I didn't miss it, because you never stated it. You have only said you agree with Obama's approach, which is a blanket amnesty. Been there, done that. Since you support another amnesty after the abysmal failure of the last, you apparently believe this country needs to experience a more massive illegal immigration problem, more ID theft and fraud, and more fleecing of U.S. taxpayers, because that's exactly what we'll get.

You only mentioned Mexicans. Do you believe we should also allow unlimited numbers of Haitians to live in the U.S. and grant visas to their families? After all, their country is in far worse condition than Mexico.

You highlighted the following quote. So, I reiterate. NO employed illegal alien fits your "committed no offenses other than misdemeanors" category. Again, ID theft and tax evasion are federal felony offenses, not misdemeanors. Therefore, who are you suggesting should be granted citizenship?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan View Post
As long as this illegal immigrant has committed no offenses other than misdemeanors {traffic/parking, etc} let's allow citizenship to him/her, allow his immediate family temporary visas, and see how they behave themselves. If they do not, then deport.
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