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Old 10-28-2007, 04:19 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,297,320 times
Reputation: 1423

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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
there is no way to enforce your new world order, and we would be wallowing in a quagmire of paperwork. who is going to monitor all of this and how would it be enforced? this would certainly create more problems than it would solve, not to mention a bigger bureaucracy and thus corruption on a grander scale than we have now.
Dear floridasandy you have a point.

But maybe, just maybe a more advanced society with more advanced technology could pull it out, that's why I stated in the original post that maybe thousands of years of evolution could be needed, not that it would happen now, it's just that when I study history books and I see the things our ancestors did (slavery, witch hunting, women not being able to have an active role in society, primae noctis, etc) I think we might continue to evolve into better societies, as we've done it so far.

2 world wars shocked consciousnesses, great suffering was caused, but good things came from this, although unfortunately we choose the path of painful experience rather than wisdom to learn these lessons, global warming is starting to knock at our doors, maybe it can make us change the way we view the world and other countries/cultures forever.

it's interesting to read people's thoughts on this, I wonder what would be people's thoughts on this 30 years from now, or 100 years.

The only constant is change.

Respect!

Last edited by Travelling fella; 10-28-2007 at 04:38 PM..
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Old 10-28-2007, 04:49 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,061,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Very well put that's the reason I always enjoy reading your post Macmeal

well a proposed solution (not that I have any power to enact it) but anyway I think we'll get there somewhere somehow would be the following:

Everybody has the right to legally immigrate to the country of their election but.

if you do this, you have to sign some kind of a contract and then your fingerprints would be taken and some kind of tracking device would be installed on your body, you'd have to be checked for infectious diseases and your criminal record or lack off will be reviewed.

in the contract you'd have to agree that you will follow the rules of the country you want to work in, before receiving that access you'd need to pass an exam of that country's official language(s), after that you would have to get in touch with an employeer who would be willing to hire you and to take responsibility for you and your actions in that country at least for a reasonable period of time like 5 years or something like that, if you get in trouble your employeer would have to pay a fine and you would be immediately deported and depending on your transgression you would either be banned for some months, a year, 5 years or permanently.

once you enter into that country you have to stick with that employee for those 5 years if you voluntarily wish to go then you would have to pay a compensation for not fullfilling the contract you agreed to sign if you ever want to come and work to that country again you'd have to go through the entire process again.

If you get fired or want to change your job, you will have 30 days to find a new one or face deportation, if you were fired because of your fault you'd have to pay a fine as a compensation, if you got fired because of personnel cut or something like that, then your employeer would have to pay that fine for you.

for those 5 years, you'd need to report monthly your adress and your income, a part of that income would be retained from you as taxes which would pay for your welfare or retirement, if you need or have to move you need to notify your host country government of that.

after those 5 years, you gain a legal residence so you have less restrictions and more rights in that country, and then you'd have those restrictions in your former country and the other ones you would wish to immigrate.

Obviously this is utopic in the current state of the world, but who knows what will the future bring us? and also this is the immigration forum so I guess it's the proper place to talk about these things

finally, if we ever get to see this kind of immigration system in the future and it works, maybe it would create a more homogeneous global culture and a less restrictive system could be enacted in the future.

and as a final thought, maybe an even more restrictive system (but less restrictive that the one it's used now) could be a good solution to this whole illegal immigration problem, it could be enacted locally first a la European Union and slowly transform it into a more global system, including first those countries with the most similar standards and cultures.

what are your thoughts?
This assumes that those host nations want everyone to immigrate as they wish. What of those people who decide for themselves that they want to impose limits on immigration? Or those that decide they don't want any immigrants at all? Who are we to impose such a plan, as yours, on anyone?
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Old 10-28-2007, 04:52 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,297,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
This assumes that those host nations want everyone to immigrate as they wish. What of those people who decide for themselves that they want to impose limits on immigration? Or those that decide they don't want any immigrants at all? Who are we to impose such a plan, as yours, on anyone?
Well I never said it should be imposed, what I stated was that maybe a radical change in future societies would make this desirable and voluntary, so a union would be slowly formed with free access between it's members, those countries who would wish to be left alone would be respected, I strongly believe we are starting to see the rise of a global culture, it is still in it's protophase but it does exist, whether it'll thrive or not is something I don't know.

also on a wild guess, if some countries start to set the example and form an union by an act of free will backed by it's citizens, maybe other countries would slowly follow them for fear of being left behind, maybe not, maybe some countries will form this union and grant free acess while others never do.

Respect!

Last edited by Travelling fella; 10-28-2007 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 10-29-2007, 07:16 AM
 
433 posts, read 1,386,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50Thunderdart View Post
The world is heading into the direction of a World Union IMO.

It starts with with the European Union, next will be the North American Union...lines are fading slowly, non-adapting hard liners will die-off and new generations will become more accepting. The internet has already brought so many people together from regions that would never have communicated. Technology will drive the future as the next big thing after the internet will create a more rapid merger of world cultures, wait for Quantum physics to hit us!

IMO it is inevitable for there to be a world of free flowing people. Humans are too smart to not head in that direction.


And what happens when a Hitleresque leader rises to power? Or the people vote in a tyrant? While immigration is good in some respects, one world government is a tremendously bad idea.

Note how only the thrid worlders/liberals support this. Maybe it has something to do with the fact only argument is for everyone to move to the West to enjoy the development, which will only leave a destitute third world in Africa/Asia/Latin America. I support the other globalization, which is continued economic development in the third world and making the third world an equal player.
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Old 10-29-2007, 08:16 AM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,470,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briarwood View Post
And what happens when a Hitleresque leader rises to power? Or the people vote in a tyrant? While immigration is good in some respects, one world government is a tremendously bad idea.
It could happen, however, I think the world society that would allow free flow of people would not allow another tyrant though.

As far as one world government, in a way this is already happening with UN, ISO, Trade Laws, the Geneva Conventions, European Union, NAFTA, Arab Maghreb Union.

Quote:
Originally Posted by briarwood View Post
Note how only the thrid worlders/liberals support this. Maybe it has something to do with the fact only argument is for everyone to move to the West to enjoy the development, which will only leave a destitute third world in Africa/Asia/Latin America. I support the other globalization, which is continued economic development in the third world and making the third world an equal player.
Sure 3rd worlders would benefit, but so would 1st world as we are seeing with globalization: exporting 1st world goods to 3rd world countries, moving to 3rd world countries and gaining a cheaper labor pool, less taxes...etc.

Here is a good article on how Globalization is starting to change its course:
Opinion: Globalization is our friend | trade, percent, deficit, globalization, economy - OCRegister.com

However besides just business, some people would love to retire in another country. This is already happening in the EU, where English people are retiring to the beach cities in Portugal that were somewhat abandoned.

So globalization is proving to be a slow 2-way street IMO.

Last edited by Mach50; 10-29-2007 at 09:33 AM..
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:21 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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I can't get over being EXTREMELY cautious about "world government". It's scary, and sounds extremely dangerous--although I admit, that's the way things are trending now-to bigger and bigger "entities".

"World Government" sounds like one of these idealistic theories that would work fine, except for the fact that we're human. Remember that Communism preached a sort of "blending" of social classes, and an "equalization" of income---and look how THAT turned out. Remember also, that one of the reasons we're in Iraq is to "help" them discover the joys of democracy---seems like a really good idea to ME, but they don't seem to be "taking to it" all that well....no further comment neded here, I guess. Not everybody agrees with our "good ideas", to put it mildly.

I came of age in the 1960's, a time when many young people tried living in "communes", sharing everything they had---(and I DO mean EVERYTHING)---almost NONE of these survived more than a year or two---they fell apart over disagreements, sexual jealousies, or the simple fact that some members didn't want to work.

The only way this "communal living" can ever work is in certain small religious groups, where members are bound by a strict moral code to "do their share". But with huge populations of strangers, it just won't work. Human beings just don't operate that way.

And really, that's what "world government" would amount to---we ALL blend our resources and our wealth and our sovereignty into ONE BIG POT. But what happens when some group, or some country, etc.. decides not to "help out". I can tell you exactly what would happen....we'd send an armed force there to "persuade" them. And that's exactly what the communists had to do, 70 or 80 years ago.

For anyone who doesn't "get" this, ask yourself this simple question...Just exactly WHERE would the "Headquarters" of this World Government be? Brussels? London? Washington?....what if it was headquartered in Beijing, or Moscow?----would that make any difference? Something to think about, at the least.

I think we should continue to take care of OUR problems, and let others take care of theirs. If they need help, they can ask us HONESTLY. We're usually pretty "easy", and we'll probably be glad to help.....

Just my opinion.....thanks for listening..
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:24 AM
 
7,139 posts, read 12,894,180 times
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Always good comments and opinions, macmeal. Unfortunately, for us to take care of OUR problems, we are forced to guard our borders and build fences. That is what it has come to. I am hoping that when the time comes the American people will be ready to fight for what IS ours and not give it away to Brussels or Beijing in the name of the pressing socialist agenda, "one world unity". Time will tell.

Never got into the commune lifestyle. I joined the military instead, also kinda like a "commune" but on a much different level, different ideals certainly. Well, the communes basically a thing of the past, the military thankfully has survived! Am also for totally pulling out our boys/girls from Iraq, and letting the locals duke it out on their own. Is what they are used to, and evidently desire, as they have been at it now for centuries. Peace a foreign concept for their way of life. These are corrupt countries and doubt they are going to do anything honestly when dealing with us, the "infidels". Is a ruse and a sham. But I AM for continuing a strong alliance with Israel, the only semblance of democracy there.
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Greater Houston
4,514 posts, read 8,599,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faith10 View Post
You cannot have a free flow of people, it would cause financial ruin for many citizens, overcrowding of all sorts....then protests and revolution, and finally governments would collapse. America is well into the first stage of this now in many areas of the country.
They said that about the free flow of capital. Typical serfish mentality.
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:27 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,415,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Right now it is not, but think about how people lived in the middle ages and how much things have changed since then, just think that 50 years ago people never imagined that advances such as the internet would change our lives forever, maybe it'll be possible in 50, 100, 300 years?

Imagine people from 300 years in the future reading history books something like this:

XX and early XXI century inhabitants of the world used an ancient technology called internal combustion to feed their vehicles and transport themselves around their cities, free access between citizens from one country and other were restricted mainly due to differences in country's incomes, cultures, customs and laws, it wasn't until globalization was very advanced that a project known as the intergalatic network was started, it was a huge database supported by an advanced quantum computing system which was constantly updated by the people themselves as they kept learning new skills which could be in demand somewhere else in the world.

we still have to evolve a loooong way to be ready for such a concept, how fast we'll get there? as fast as we want to go imho

Respect!
it could happen one day, but they gotta stop doin stuff like blowing up new york. this really puts a damper on progress.
stephen s
san diego ca
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