U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-26-2007, 01:21 AM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,003,968 times
Reputation: 1009

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSykes View Post
Well at least you admit that it was needed at one time. Pardon my disingenuousness, but I'm curious to know why you think AA is no longer needed. Do the conditions that contributed to the formation of AA still exist?

I think that sex based AA was necessary, and it did a great job of getting women into the work force, especially into city, local, state and federal jobs. Women were very limited to a very few number of careers for generations. Sex based AA is obviously sexist, but it was necessary. Today it's no longer necessary because clearly women can have any job they qualify themselves for.

As far as race based AA goes, I've never felt it was necessary because it IS racist. If we're going to embrace government based racism like AA we should outright admit exactly what it is and be honest about it upfront. Government race based AA is racism and it's acceptable as long as the right people are the victims of said racism.

If we are going to have government based AA in our society then we should at least be open and honest about what it is. And under no circumstances should immigrants, legal or illegal, qualify for AA. We have enough poor needy people of all races in this country that need jobs and a helping hand. We certainly don't need to bring in immigrant job competition and give them an advantage in the form of AA.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-26-2007, 01:52 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
44 posts, read 23,699 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
My reference is to Affirmative Action itelf, not who is included. I'll let the Legislative Branch identify those parameters.
So you do not believe that immigrants should receive AA?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2007, 01:53 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
44 posts, read 23,699 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
But as for the REST of the world, I fail to see how they qualify for our American "AA" benefits---I just don't get it. What sort of historic debt do we owe these people?
None at all, which means you agree with me on this topic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2007, 01:57 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
44 posts, read 23,699 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
And under no circumstances should immigrants, legal or illegal, qualify for AA. We have enough poor needy people of all races in this country that need jobs and a helping hand. We certainly don't need to bring in immigrant job competition and give them an advantage in the form of AA.
So you too agree with me on this subject. There is no justification for people who choose to come here of their own volition (e.g. they were not brought here in chains) to recieve AA.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2007, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Bayou City
2,991 posts, read 4,468,958 times
Reputation: 2496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
That's because AA still exists, when in fact it's no longer needed

Sex based AA is obviously sexist, but it was necessary.

As far as race based AA goes, I've never felt it was necessary because it IS racist.
If I am correctly understanding your argument, while indeed you believe AA was needed at one time, it is your contention that race-based AA was never needed because of its inherent "racism", whereas "sexist" AA was.

Just curious as to what you think makes a "sexist" AA program warranted and a "racist" one not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2007, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
One big issue I have with AA is the inference that the targeted 'minority' is somehow inferior------which can backfire.

Within the Black community; there is some resentment that Blacks who immigrated from Nigeria, etc. tend to 'leapfrog' the US born/raised ones due to the former's typically high levels of education.

In fact: the most affluent ethnic minority here in the USA are African Black people------and, their children.

It casts grave suspicion on the culture of many so-called disadvantaged US Blacks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2007, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Bayou City
2,991 posts, read 4,468,958 times
Reputation: 2496
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
One big issue I have with AA is the inference that the targeted 'minority' is somehow inferior------which can backfire.

Within the Black community; there is some resentment that Blacks who immigrated from Nigeria, etc. tend to 'leapfrog' the US born/raised ones due to the former's typically high levels of education.

In fact: the most affluent ethnic minority here in the USA are African Black people------and, their children.

It casts grave suspicion on the culture of many so-called disadvantaged US Blacks.
The resentment only stems from the unwarranted disdain some African immigrants hold toward American blacks, who seem to fail to realize how they (and other immigrant groups) have actually benefitted from the restructured moral and social fabric brought upon by the Civil Rights Movement.

Moreover, it should be no surprise that a Nigerian family who has amassed enough resources, education, and capital in their own country to voluntarily relocate here and do business in the first place would probably be more successful than the struggling black family in inner-city Detroit borne from generations of poverty and American-style oppression.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2007, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,755 posts, read 23,217,198 times
Reputation: 6087
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDARE Reader View Post
So you do not believe that immigrants should receive AA?
I have no stance on the issue. Seeing the discussions concerning the issue I could probably put up decent justifications for either position.

As I've stated in a couple of other postings, the immigration area really hasn't been of significant interest to me prior to being a mod for the forum. In fact, one reason I was assigned this forum is due to my lack of prior postings. I am not dismissive of the significant concerns of others, but my personal interest in international affairs is more centered on things like Russia and China.

So, I'm not evading the issue, it just isn't really something I have a stance on. Now, if you want to discuss the Baltic states and Gazprom...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2007, 09:31 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSykes View Post
Agreed. AA should only seek to redress the country's self-generated condition of systematized exclusion of specific social groups with a self-perpetuating and self-governing "counter" condition of systematized inclusion of those groups. Only makes since.
Can't argue with this. I'm all for redressing the opression caused by our own (American) past wrongs---slavery, segregation, etc etc. I am NOT, however, ready to redress the wrongs of tyrannical or oppressive governments elsewhere.
Our willingness to "take these people in", when they do manage to arrive here, is in itself an act of charity and decency that puts us far ahead of most societies. The idea that we then "owe" them anything, I find highly questionable. If anyone owes anything, these new arrivals owe US a huge debt of gratitude and loyalty (which, by the way, many are all too happy to acknowledge)...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2007, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
3,589 posts, read 2,972,613 times
Reputation: 533
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSykes View Post
I love it when "women" are categorically distinguished from "minorities".
Your point being?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top