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Old 02-06-2013, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
And the data was already trending that way during the Bush II presidency...

How are administration members "twisting the truth" years before they come to that position?...
Lies didn't start with the Obama administration. We have been deceived for many, many years.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
But then the Washington Times reporter following that up by sourcing an unreliable kook like Glenn Spencer? (and even linking to what his website is named, but not the underlying GAO report):
Rather than trying to besmirch her reputation, why don't you provide evidence to prove your point?
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Exeter, NH
5,200 posts, read 4,205,839 times
Reputation: 5454
Our border can never be secure if we think we can solve the problem with a physical wall. And in addition to being almost worthless, it is obscenely expensive, when our government is so deep in debt that it needs to be cutting expenses drastically.

There is only one sure way to ensure that illegal immigrants are not taking jobs from Americans or consuming taxpayer resources such as education and welfare: require proof of citizenship for getting a job, putting a child in the school system, or getting welfare or other government assistance. In effect, take away the "bait" that is drawing them here in the first place.

We already have extensive laws (and taxes) relating to hiring an employee; requiring citizenship proof is not a difficult additional burden--and the cost is borne by the employer rather than taxpayers. And we already have applications and approval processes for schools and welfare: again, the application process should include proof of citizenship at an absolute minimum.

After removal of the "bait," we can further remove illegals who run afoul of the legal system, either by committing crimes or even getting traffic tickets. More severe crimes will have to be punished with (expensive) incarceration, but lesser charges should be deported with the stipulation that entering the country illegally will trigger incarceration, for perhaps twice as long (or whatever would serve as a strong disincentive).

Any homeowner knows that if you have a problem of mice, ants or bugs, you need to first stop leaving food out where they can get at it. As a nation, it could not be more obvious that if you are offering a free American education for anyone who can smuggle themselves and their kids across the border, they'll come. Ditto welfare programs which are ridiculously lucrative compared to Mexico and other immigration sources.

As for "anchor babies," the law should be changed. Similarly, we are far too inclusive with rules like this: "Those born within U.S. ports and harbors or within 12 nautical miles of U.S. borders are also American citizens. Even babies born on planes flying over the U.S. or its territories acquire U.S. citizenship. The ship or plane's country of origin makes no difference regarding citizenship" and this: "a child who is under the age of 18, was born outside the U.S., and has at least one U.S. citizen parent automatically acquires U.S. citizenship upon entry into the country" Is Your Child a U.S. Citizen if Born Abroad? | LegalZoom Those are the kind of laws you make when you are desperate to increase population and increase the labor pool--unlike America today, where the social cost of the lower classes has become a major burden on the working class, and overpopulation of the labor market has lowered wages and made jobs difficult to get at all.

We are no longer a nation in need of cheap labor; we are a nation with a massive and costly lower class that increases in number by the day. At least limiting the number of people here illegally can slightly reduce educational costs and welfare costs. So, remove the "bait," and deport the ones that run afoul of the Justice system; also make the penalties for returning enough to be a disincentive. This is what a government that truly has its own citizens at heart would do, and so we can be assured that it is exactly what our current Administration will not do.

Last edited by NHartphotog; 02-06-2013 at 09:59 PM..
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
IBM, had you bothered to try to verify her story, you would have easily found this with a simple Google search.

Barber presents GAO report to residents
By Trisha Maldonado
Douglas Dispatch
Published/Last Modified on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 11:05 PM MST


Quote:
Congressman Ron Barber released a comprehensive study of Border Patrol strategy to ensure the border is secure to Douglas residents on Jan. 28 at the Douglas Visitors Center.

Barber told the approximately 150 people in attendance the study confirmed the risk and need of the Tucson Sector of the Border Patrol is high and we need the best possible strategy moving forward.

As of Dec. 2012 the GAO has reported that the Border Patrol does not yet have performance goals and measures in place necessary to define border security and determine the resources necessary to achieve it.

Border Patrol officials said that they had planned to establish such goals and measures by fiscal year 2012, but these efforts have been delayed, and are contingent on developing and implementing key elements of its strategic plan.
Douglas, Arizona : News : Barber presents GAO report to residents : Douglas Dispatch, Arizona


From the OP link. . . .

Quote:
Yet the “palpable” or obvious numbers with which Napolitano wants to quibble came from a Government Accountability Report (GAO). The report also illustrated that the Obama administration has failed to evaluate Border Patrol’s security measures over the past two years, effectively, rendering any recordable metric data to determine if the border is secure unreliable.
How does that differ from the other source?
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I see you aren't serious.

When you provide proof that GAO is not the source, I'll stand corrected.
I've shown that Kimberly Dvorak lacks any truthful reporting credentials...

Why did you put the link to her article as "DHS" in your original post?...

Here it is: GAO Report

Skimming through the entire report (96 pages), it appears the 60% apprehension rate is only specified for the Tucson Sector (one of nine on the southern border). Page 29 has a graph (Figure 12) that shows a higher estimate of "turn backs" for the Tucson sector than previous years, leaving about 13% as "got aways" in 2011 (the text version of the report is at http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/651219.txt). The report, as other links offered tonight, has a wealth of data such as the apprehension distance from the border for all nine southern sectors, border crossing recidivism rates, and apprehensions of nationalities from watched countries.

It also interviews Arizona ranchers as saying the number of migrants traversing their land has decreased...

I've downloaded it as a PDF for later reference...
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Lies didn't start with the Obama administration. We have been deceived for many, many years.
Then reply to the post from "california-jewel", as it was attributed to just as being from the Obama administration there...
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:41 PM
 
66 posts, read 53,149 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
SNIP
Barber presents GAO report to residents
By Trisha Maldonado
Douglas Dispatch
Published/Last Modified on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 11:05 PM MST

Douglas, Arizona : News : Barber presents GAO report to residents : Douglas Dispatch, Arizona
When the Total Apprehensions for the Tucson and Yuma Border Patrol Sectors are round numbers you have to question them
http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...adult_appr.pdf
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Rather than trying to besmirch her reputation, why don't you provide evidence to prove your point?
Kimberly Dvorak took the data that only applied to the Tucson Sector, and reported it as covering the entire southern border...

That's bad journalism...

There is no proof needed that Glenn Spencer is a kook, Washington Times reporter Stevan Dinan should have treated the GAO report as a better source than him...
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
Our border can never be secure if we think we can solve the problem with a physical wall. And in addition to being almost worthless, it is obscenely expensive, when our government is so deep in debt that it needs to be cutting expenses drastically.

There is only one sure way to ensure that illegal immigrants are not taking jobs from Americans or consuming taxpayer resources such as education and welfare: require proof of citizenship for getting a job, putting a child in the school system, or getting welfare or other government assistance. In effect, take away the "bait" that is drawing them here in the first place.

We already have extensive laws (and taxes) relating to hiring an employee; requiring citizenship proof is not a difficult additional burden--and the cost is borne by the employer rather than taxpayers. And we already have applications and approval processes for schools and welfare: again, the application process should include proof of citizenship at an absolute minimum.

After removal of the "bait," we can further remove illegals who run afoul of the legal system, either by committing crimes or even getting traffic tickets. More severe crimes will have to be punished with (expensive) incarceration, but lesser charges should be deported with the stipulation that entering the country illegally will trigger incarceration, for perhaps twice as long (or whatever would serve as a strong disincentive).

Any homeowner knows that if you have a problem of mice, ants or bugs, you need to first stop leaving food out where they can get at it. As a nation, it could not be more obvious that if you are offering a free American education for anyone who can smuggle themselves and their kids across the border

As for "anchor babies," the law should be changed. Similarly, we are far too inclusive with rules like this: "Those born within U.S. ports and harbors or within 12 nautical miles of U.S. borders are also American citizens. Even babies born on planes flying over the U.S. or its territories acquire U.S. citizenship. The ship or plane's country of origin makes no difference regarding citizenship" and this: "a child who is under the age of 18, was born outside the U.S., and has at least one U.S. citizen parent automatically acquires U.S. citizenship upon entry into the country" Is Your Child a U.S. Citizen if Born Abroad? | LegalZoom Those are the kind of laws you make when you are desperate to increase population and increase the labor pool--unlike America today, where the social cost of the lower classes has become a major burden on the working class, and overpopulation of the labor market has lowered wages and made jobs difficult to get at all.

We are no longer a nation in need of cheap labor; we are a nation with a massive and costly lower class that increases in number by the day. At least limiting the number of people here illegally can slightly reduce educational costs and welfare costs. So, remove the "bait," and deport the ones that run afoul of the Justice system; also make the penalties for returning enough to be a disincentive. This is what a government that truly has its own citizens at heart would do, and so we can be assured that it is exactly what our current Administration will not do.
Agreed. Unfortunately, requiring proof of citizenship is now deemed racist and draconian. Heck, even suggesting we should require proof of legal status constitutes racial profiling in the minds of many. Remember the SB 1070 "papers please" outrage, comparing it to Nazi Germany? The mere notion of restricting birthright citizenship to the children of citizens is considered vile and unfair punishment to innocent children. We're doomed, period.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzm1 View Post
When the Total Apprehensions for the Tucson and Yuma Border Patrol Sectors are round numbers you have to question them
http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...adult_appr.pdf
But the actual GAO report goes into hundreds of a percent (i.e. "60.65")...
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