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Old 02-11-2013, 10:01 PM
 
Location: LawnGuyLind, NY / Sarasota, FL
1,595 posts, read 2,364,344 times
Reputation: 1080

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WOW - I just read through all these pages of comments, and I find two basics of our COuntry missing here:

1 - No one is a "Criminal" unless they are adjudged to have been guilty by a proper Court. No one ever heard of "Innocent Until Proven Guilty?" One can confess all they want, but until convicted after a trial, or waiving a trial, they are not Guilty of a crime. Not guilty of a crime = not a criminal.

2 - An 11 year old cannot be a Criminal. An 11 year old does not possess the Mens Rea necessary to commit a crime, with very rare exceptions in a few capital cases.

 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:02 PM
 
1,523 posts, read 1,070,019 times
Reputation: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Not a criminal matter.
True. He just got hit in the pocketbook with the judgement.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,375 posts, read 2,649,416 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Yet you said you were and due to that the police or even the FBI can investigate you, and possibly detain you for claiming to be, go figure.
I can also say I'm black. Does that mean the KKK will come after me now fully knowing I am indeed a Caucasian male? I can say that I am a military Veteran. Does that mean that anti-military people will come after me now?

Please. I can claim to be a hacker, but unless I do something that warrants investigating (as in, you know, actually hacking something), then the government won't bat an eye towards me.

Quote:
I provided you with a link ( https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...fMdvsO4cp58CAQ ), I suggest you read it, then attempt to at least understand it. An illegal only needs to admit to his crime to be considered a criminal.
Except that the way it works in this country is if someone is convicted of a crime in a court of law, then they are a criminal. You can admit to anything you want, but if there isn't evidence to convict you then you're not, by legal standing, a criminal.

Now again prove that this illegal was convicted in the court of law for a crime thus making him a criminal. Cite your sources.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:04 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,714,115 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
How is this illegal a criminal again when he wasn't convicted in a court of law? He has a work permit here, does he not?
What does a work permit have to do with the illegal? He was granted a DACA deferral and also a work authorization from the deferral (separate application). The work permit doesn't change his status as an illegal, he is still an illegal.

Again, aliens, if they admit to a crime, are by way of admission, guilty of said crime. Citizens on the other hand are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty, however citizens can be investigated and detained until proven innocent.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:06 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,520 posts, read 30,721,186 times
Reputation: 12892
Uncle Ted, should be a little miffed at seeing a non citizen cherished like a toy.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:07 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,714,115 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachgns View Post
WOW - I just read through all these pages of comments, and I find two basics of our COuntry missing here:

1 - No one is a "Criminal" unless they are adjudged to have been guilty by a proper Court. No one ever heard of "Innocent Until Proven Guilty?" One can confess all they want, but until convicted after a trial, or waiving a trial, they are not Guilty of a crime. Not guilty of a crime = not a criminal.

2 - An 11 year old cannot be a Criminal. An 11 year old does not possess the Mens Rea necessary to commit a crime, with very rare exceptions in a few capital cases.
You might try reading the link I provided, An alien only needs to admit to a crime to be considered a criminal and ineligible for admission.

An 11 yo isn't being held accountable, the 20 yo is, once he turned 18 he became responsible for himself.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, California
4,375 posts, read 2,649,416 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
What does a work permit have to do with the illegal? He was granted a DACA deferral and also a work authorization from the deferral (separate application). The work permit doesn't change his status as an illegal, he is still an illegal.
I'm not arguing that he isn't an illegal. What don't you understand about that? Yes, he is an illegal. I am not saying otherwise, so why are you beating a dead horse?

Quote:
Again, aliens, if they admit to a crime, are by way of admission, guilty of said crime. Citizens on the other hand are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty, however citizens can be investigated and detained until proven innocent.
Except he committed no crime, his parents did by bringing him here. It's unfortunate that he's being called a 'criminal' for their actions, but what can he do?

Until he gets convicted in court of a crime, then he is not a criminal. Doesn't matter what you say or think.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:10 PM
 
Location: LawnGuyLind, NY / Sarasota, FL
1,595 posts, read 2,364,344 times
Reputation: 1080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
You might try reading the link I provided, An alien only needs to admit to a crime to be considered a criminal and ineligible for admission.

An 11 yo isn't being held accountable, the 20 yo is, once he turned 18 he became responsible for himself.
NOT a Criminal - rather Inadmissible.
And what Crime was he convicted of? If none, he is NOT a Criminal.

The OP was concerned about a CRIMINAL attending the speech.

I'll bet there will be at least one member of Congress attending who sometime in his or her life was convicted of a crime, thus a Criminal. SO should that person be asked to leave as well?
 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:13 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,714,115 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
I can also say I'm black. Does that mean the KKK will come after me now fully knowing I am indeed a Caucasian male? I can say that I am a military Veteran. Does that mean that anti-military people will come after me now?
Is being Black a criminal violation? Claiming to be a military vet isn't breaking a law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
Please. I can claim to be a hacker, but unless I do something that warrants investigating (as in, you know, actually hacking something), then the government won't bat an eye towards me.
They may not bat an eye towards you, they may simply watch you. You are attempting to squirm out of the point now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
Except that the way it works in this country is if someone is convicted of a crime in a court of law, then they are a criminal. You can admit to anything you want, but if there isn't evidence to convict you then you're not, by legal standing, a criminal.
You confuse the classes of people. Aliens aren't covered by all our laws, illegals even less so. Read the damned link, learn immigration law, understand the difference between an alien and a citizen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
Now again prove that this illegal was convicted in the court of law for a crime thus making him a criminal. Cite your sources.
I don't need to, aliens do not fall under the protections of citizens. An alien only needs to admit to a crime to be considered a criminal. Your inane ranting of wanting proof or citing "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't deem you knowledgeable. Take this as a learning experience, learn administrative and immigration law, or at least be cogent in it.
 
Old 02-11-2013, 10:19 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,714,115 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by adiosToreador View Post
Except he committed no crime, his parents did by bringing him here. It's unfortunate that he's being called a 'criminal' for their actions, but what can he do?

Until he gets convicted in court of a crime, then he is not a criminal. Doesn't matter what you say or think.
Once he turned 18 and 1 day, he committed the crime of being here by way of EWI, and admits to it, even though while he was 18 and under he couldn't be held accountable for his actions as a minor from his parents bringing him here.

No court is needed to label him a criminal, he has admitted to it. Doesn't matter what you claim or think, I have provided evidence backing up my claim about illegals and aliens in general. You either accept it or you don't, but don't keep claiming the same BS when I have shown it as incorrect, argue or prove my link and claim incorrect.
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