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Old 02-16-2013, 03:26 PM
 
31,497 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Most certainly guesses can be discounted. I just answered a post that was clueless to whom illegal aliens even are. Especially hearing other irrational comments, I'm not got going to believe just anyone jabbering on about how many "illegals" there are.

That is where the credibility issues start creeping into the stance...
IMO, I don't know why we are quibbling about the numbers anyway. Regardless of whether there are 5 million or 20 million it is a problem that we should all be concerned about. Some in here apparently aren't and in fact defend them every chance they get in subtle ways like challenging others over the numbers or arguing about other details or stats when the bottom line is their illegal presence here is what the focus should be. I can see that by doing the former though it is meant to be a diversionary tactic to keep the bottom line focus at bay by those who are defenders and sympathizers of them.

 
Old 02-16-2013, 03:45 PM
 
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How many illegal alien americans are there in mexico?
 
Old 02-16-2013, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
IMO, I don't know why we are quibbling about the numbers anyway. Regardless of whether there are 5 million or 20 million it is a problem that we should all be concerned about. Some in here apparently aren't and in fact defend them every chance they get in subtle ways like challenging others over the numbers or arguing about other details or stats when the bottom line is their illegal presence here is what the focus should be. I can see that by doing the former though it is meant to be a diversionary tactic to keep the bottom line focus at bay by those who are defenders and sympathizers of them.
Then don't let me interrupt and the topic can get back to guessing whatever numbers they want to hear. "It's 50 million!", "No, it's 60 million!", whom is actually trying to come up with their own numbers? I'm not arguing about someone's numbers, I'm arguing to why they think it is the correct number.

We have the benefit of knowing our nations population by compilations from a government agency that surveys the country every ten years. Most people would be at a loss to closely estimate a total even in their own local communities without a published reference. Why would you think it is going to be any more successful for them to determine the size of a nationwide sub-population?

I saw (and responded to) a comment that wasn't aware of what that definition meant...

You're inventing your own "diversionary tactics". It isn't possible for the topics to stay focused on illegal immigration, far too many are also talking about what they consider "unfair quotas", legal immigration sponsorship, naturalization, and speaking Spanish. A thought close to someone being their own worst enemy comes to mind.
 
Old 02-16-2013, 04:57 PM
 
31,497 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Then don't let me interrupt and the topic can get back to guessing whatever numbers they want to hear. "It's 50 million!", "No, it's 60 million!", whom is actually trying to come up with their own numbers? I'm not arguing about someone's numbers, I'm arguing to why they think it is the correct number.

We have the benefit of knowing our nations population by compilations from a government agency that surveys the country every ten years. Most people would be at a loss to closely estimate a total even in their own local communities without a published reference. Why would you think it is going to be any more successful for them to determine the size of a nationwide sub-population?

I saw (and responded to) a comment that wasn't aware of what that definition meant...

You're inventing your own "diversionary tactics". It isn't possible for the topics to stay focused on illegal immigration, far too many are also talking about what they consider "unfair quotas", legal immigration sponsorship, naturalization, and speaking Spanish. A thought close to someone being their own worst enemy comes to mind.
Again, why do you care where someone gets their numbers? Isn't it enough that we have milions of illegal immigrants in our country in violation of our immigration laws?

No, the diversionary tactics are quite obvious. What I am talking about are illegal immigrant stats becoming the focus rather than their illegal presence here. I am not discussing legal immigrants in my remarks here so why are you bringing that up again? When the occasion arises you have brought that subject up yourself and yet you continue to chastize myself and others for doing the same? When are you going to stop being hypocritical?
 
Old 02-16-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Again, why do you care where someone gets their numbers? Isn't it enough that we have milions of illegal immigrants in our country in violation of our immigration laws?...
Someone agrees with you about disregarding numbers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
The goal should be each and every person here that is not an American citizen. Doing numbers are stupid. Clear the deck! Then close the borders so they don't come back. It is cheaper to deport them than it is to pay for their upkeep. If any extra money is needed take it out of the money that is being paid for their wellfare.
Why stop at illegal aliens, "[t]he goal should be each and every person here that is not an American citizen". Chris Crane, an ICE union representative wants to go after legal immigrants becoming a "public charge", "malamute" doesn't want Mexicans here without a good health insurance plan, and he thinks the sponsors in "Green Card marriages" should live outside the United States with their families. You yourself want less Mexicans to be on "quotas".

We're back up to about 60 million, so that's maybe the end number people are thinking about anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...No, the diversionary tactics are quite obvious. What I am talking about are illegal immigrant stats becoming the focus rather than their illegal presence here. I am not discussing legal immigrants in my remarks here so why are you bringing that up again? When the occasion arises you have brought that subject up yourself and yet you continue to chastize myself and others for doing the same? When are you going to stop being hypocritical?
It looks like topics are removed in Legal Immigration, so I guess we have to slug it out in containment here. We can't stay focused on just illegal immigration, because people want MORE than just them gone. I've provided the examples above, why do you want to limit the discussion to just illegal immigration, when in your words, the mods and everyone else is fine with bringing in those discussions too?
 
Old 02-17-2013, 06:10 AM
 
31,497 posts, read 14,573,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Someone agrees with you about disregarding numbers:



Why stop at illegal aliens, "[t]he goal should be each and every person here that is not an American citizen". Chris Crane, an ICE union representative wants to go after legal immigrants becoming a "public charge", "malamute" doesn't want Mexicans here without a good health insurance plan, and he thinks the sponsors in "Green Card marriages" should live outside the United States with their families. You yourself want less Mexicans to be on "quotas".

We're back up to about 60 million, so that's maybe the end number people are thinking about anyway...



It looks like topics are removed in Legal Immigration, so I guess we have to slug it out in containment here. We can't stay focused on just illegal immigration, because people want MORE than just them gone. I've provided the examples above, why do you want to limit the discussion to just illegal immigration, when in your words, the mods and everyone else is fine with bringing in those discussions too?
There are laws on the books that legal immigrants should not become a burden to our society. They should be mandated to have a health insurance plan to remain here, IMO. As usual, those laws aren't enforced either. Again, what do you have against diversity? Why do you think that Mexicans should continue to enjoy much larger quotas than anyone else?

What? You're the one who has been crying about the topics veering off into discussing legal immigrants lately, not me. Yet ever since you came into this forum you yourself has brought up legal immigration numerous times. How many times do I have to keep repeating this yet you totally ignore it? Isn't that being hypocritical? I don't make the rules in here so if the mods are ok with it then so am I.
 
Old 02-17-2013, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
There are laws on the books that legal immigrants should not become a burden to our society. They should be mandated to have a health insurance plan to remain here, IMO. As usual, those laws aren't enforced either. Again, what do you have against diversity? Why do you think that Mexicans should continue to enjoy much larger quotas than anyone else?...
You've also recently said that you believe immigrants that can, but don't, naturalize are not loyal to the United States. Do you think they should be evicted? What sort of coverage limits does your idea of mandatory immigrant's health insurance have to have?

Should an immigrant's ethnicity be a factor in determining whether they qualify to immigrate in your opinion? Who determines the ethnical composition of immigrants in that plan? Can an applicant have certain conditions waived if they otherwise qualify based on ethnicity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...What? You're the one who has been crying about the topics veering off into discussing legal immigrants lately, not me. Yet ever since you came into this forum you yourself has brought up legal immigration numerous times. How many times do I have to keep repeating this yet you totally ignore it? Isn't that being hypocritical? I don't make the rules in here so if the mods are ok with it then so am I.
The threads have had these topics even without my involvement. Much of the time, there isn't even an understanding that a topic may not even relate to illegal immigration. We have posts that talk about removing everyone that is not a U.S. citizen.
 
Old 02-17-2013, 09:03 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Again, why do you care where someone gets their numbers? Isn't it enough that we have milions of illegal immigrants in our country in violation of our immigration laws?

No, the diversionary tactics are quite obvious. What I am talking about are illegal immigrant stats becoming the focus rather than their illegal presence here. I am not discussing legal immigrants in my remarks here so why are you bringing that up again? When the occasion arises you have brought that subject up yourself and yet you continue to chastize myself and others for doing the same? When are you going to stop being hypocritical?
They get their numbers the same way they got them back in that big 80s amnesty when they estimated there were 300,000 illegals and ended up handing amnesty to over 3,000,000. Their estimates were off by at least ten times the amount.
 
Old 02-17-2013, 09:20 AM
 
31,497 posts, read 14,573,470 times
Reputation: 8357
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
You've also recently said that you believe immigrants that can, but don't, naturalize are not loyal to the United States. Do you think they should be evicted? What sort of coverage limits does your idea of mandatory immigrant's health insurance have to have?

Should an immigrant's ethnicity be a factor in determining whether they qualify to immigrate in your opinion? Who determines the ethnical composition of immigrants in that plan? Can an applicant have certain conditions waived if they otherwise qualify based on ethnicity?



The threads have had these topics even without my involvement. Much of the time, there isn't even an understanding that a topic may not even relate to illegal immigration. We have posts that talk about removing everyone that is not a U.S. citizen.
No, I don't think legal immigrants who don't want to become naturalized citizens should be evicted. What do you think the reason is that they don't other than that their hearts still belong in their homelands? They should have good enough health coverage so that our tax coffers don't have to subsidize their care resulting from their health issues.

Why do you keep asking questions of me that I have already answered yet you fail to answer mine like "don't you like diversity and why do you think that Mexicans should continue to get the lion's share of our legal immigration quotas"? I have made my position clear several times. I think we should have equal quotas for all nationalties and ethnic groups because it is fair and equal and does not alter our own culture and demographics in a significant way. The opposite of equal does.

Yes, others have made initial remarks or started topics that aren't illegal immigration ones. I have seen Yac close them because of the latter. But that isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing remarks made about legal immigrants for example by comparing them to illegal immigrants in the context of that discussion. You have done that yourself and so have I and many others in here and yet of late you object to that? I think the fact that I keep mentioning diversifying our legal immigration quotas (one reason being because we have so many here illegally here from one ethnic group) burns your hide so all of a sudden it is objectionable to mention "legal" immigration. I say practice what you preach.

As for someone saying we should remove anyone who isn't a citizen of this country I disagree with that as long as they are here legally but it appears though that there are laws on the books that aren't being enforced in regards to legal immigrants who have become a burden to our society that I wasn't aware of.
 
Old 02-17-2013, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
No, I don't think legal immigrants who don't want to become naturalized citizens should be evicted. What do you think the reason is that they don't other than that their hearts still belong in their homelands?
Why are you presuming to guess why someone has not naturalized? Your displacement doesn't even make sense. They can return to their homelands, and abandon their residency. It appears that their residency is held in higher esteem than their homelands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...They should have good enough health coverage so that our tax coffers don't have to subsidize their care resulting from their health issues...
Let's have some monetary values, I'm not letting you off easy with the "feel-good" figures...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...Why do you keep asking questions of me that I have already answered yet you fail to answer mine like "don't you like diversity and why do you think that Mexicans should continue to get the lion's share of our legal immigration quotas"? I have made my position clear several times. I think we should have equal quotas for all nationalties and ethnic groups because it is fair and equal and does not alter our own culture and demographics in a significant way. The opposite of equal does...
I ask questions because you seem thoroughly confused about what immigration quotas are, whom they apply to, and how they are allocated. Your position has stated no clear specifics at all. Go for it, give us your grand plan on how immigration would be ideal by ethnic quotas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...Yes, others have made initial remarks or started topics that aren't illegal immigration ones. I have seen Yac close them because of the latter. But that isn't what we were discussing. We were discussing remarks made about legal immigrants for example by comparing them to illegal immigrants in the context of that discussion...
You didn't even define how three example sentences I offered would relate to illegal immigration...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...You have done that yourself and so have I and many others in here and yet of late you object to that? I think the fact that I keep mentioning diversifying our legal immigration quotas (one reason being because we have so many here illegally here from one ethnic group) burns your hide so all of a sudden it is objectionable to mention "legal" immigration. I say practice what you preach...
So prove you can lay out your master plan with specifics, I'm waiting to hear it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...As for someone saying we should remove anyone who isn't a citizen of this country I disagree with that as long as they are here legally but it appears though that there are laws on the books that aren't being enforced in regards to legal immigrants who have become a burden to our society that I wasn't aware of.
I've always understood it wasn't just about illegal immigration with you, but you've got the ability to say how you want it, just expect some questions...
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