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Old 03-08-2013, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,015,841 times
Reputation: 601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I said I am done with this yet you keep going on anyway. You are still spinning what I said about most Hispanics in this country (whether foreign born or U.S. born) being from Mexican "roots" among other things. You can deviate from the bottom line with all kinds of other stats but it doesn't change the facts...
Ok, I'll take a break from my "big project" to address this again...

We're going to step back into an outline mode, with query/response:

What do you believe is the total estimate for all Mexican (legal and illegal) immigrants in the United States? You've stated this previously as "nearly 7 million". Provide the year and the source you are referencing (as in "2009" for the "OhMyGov News" source).

Of that total, state the portion that is sourced as Mexican "illegal aliens" (previously you have said "6.6 million", or the OhMyGov source lists 6,650,000 illegal aliens). The quantity of "Mexicans here legally" is going to be the total minus the "Mexican illegal aliens". State that amount, and we will continue from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
...Still waiting for you to respond to Benicar's post.
In time (it is going to be involved for the length of her response, and mostly relating to what she sees as Mexican "scam marriages"), you have my attention for now...

 
Old 03-08-2013, 04:42 PM
 
31,710 posts, read 14,622,494 times
Reputation: 8456
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Ok, I'll take a break from my "big project" to address this again...

We're going to step back into an outline mode, with query/response:

What do you believe is the total estimate for all Mexican (legal and illegal) immigrants in the United States? You've stated this previously as "nearly 7 million". Provide the year and the source you are referencing (as in "2009" for the "OhMyGov News" source).

Of that total, state the portion that is sourced as Mexican "illegal aliens" (previously you have said "6.6 million", or the OhMyGov source lists 6,650,000 illegal aliens). The quantity of "Mexicans here legally" is going to be the total minus the "Mexican illegal aliens". State that amount, and we will continue from there.



In time (it is going to be involved for the length of her response, and mostly relating to what she sees as Mexican "scam marriages"), you have my attention for now...
What part of I am done with this discussion aren't you getting? I have said it 3 times now.

Last edited by Oldglory; 03-08-2013 at 04:51 PM..
 
Old 03-08-2013, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,015,841 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
What part of I am done with this discussion aren't you getting? I have said it 3 times now.
I just thought that you might want to address why both you and your wife have stated there are less than 400,000 "Mexicans here legally". You have alleged that I am "spinning" your words, and "deviating" from the topic (when it is specifically on Mexican immigrants), but failing to address where exactly that is when I ask you to restate it as you believe it. How is it possible for me to "spin" words with a image capture of exactly how it was said?:





How do you resolve a claim that Mexicans are legally immigrating in high numbers when you believe that population here is so low in numbers? Just 100,000 households in the United States composed like mine (with four legal Mexican immigrants) would satisfy that assumption. Isn't that the "bottom line" for you if you think Mexican Nationals are here illegally in a ratio of 24 to 1 over their legal counterparts?

Follow through with how I am "spinning" your words if you are going to make the allegation...
 
Old 03-08-2013, 05:54 PM
 
31,710 posts, read 14,622,494 times
Reputation: 8456
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I just thought that you might want to address why both you and your wife have stated there are less than 400,000 "Mexicans here legally". You have alleged that I am "spinning" your words, and "deviating" from the topic (when it is specifically on Mexican immigrants), but failing to address where exactly that is when I ask you to restate it as you believe it. How is it possible for me to "spin" words with a image capture of exactly how it was said?:





How do you resolve a claim that Mexicans are legally immigrating in high numbers when you believe that population here is so low in numbers? Just 100,000 households in the United States composed like mine (with four legal Mexican immigrants) would satisfy that assumption. Isn't that the "bottom line" for you if you think Mexican Nationals are here illegally in a ratio of 24 to 1 over their legal counterparts?

Follow through with how I am "spinning" your words if you are going to make the allegation...
A source was provided to you for those stats. They aren't our personal guesses or claims. If you choose not to belive the source/link provided to you then that's your problem to resolve not mine. Now will you please move on?
 
Old 03-08-2013, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,015,841 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
A source was provided to you for those stats. They aren't our personal guesses or claims. If you choose not to belive the source/link provided to you then that's your problem to resolve not mine. Now will you please move on?
But you claimed I was "spinning" your words to contest the "OhMyGov News" numbers. Why is a source suggesting around 96% of Mexican immigrants in the United States are illegal aliens believed to be more correct than what I had in the OP (as 58%)? I've seen that same source used by either one of you for at least a couple of years now.

I just wanted to know why that was latched on to in particular, in the face of other contrasting information, and when you both have said Mexicans are legally immigrating in high numbers...

Which is it, high or low legal Mexican immigration?...
 
Old 03-08-2013, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,826,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I think you mean 50 million, a factor of a thousand times higher. Pew Research reports 51.9 million for 2011. That population has increased 48% (from 35.2 million) since 2000:

Hispanic Population Trends
A close to 50% increase in 11 years is phenomenal, as well as unprecedented. Any idea what factors are primarily responsible for such a drastic increase in that demographic? Could it be massive Hispanic illegal immigration and their U.S.-born children?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
False, Hispanics of U.S. nationality outnumber the foreign-born Hispanics of all countries combined within the United States, and it has been that majority (64% in 2011) even in recent years (the lowest it has dipped is 60% in 2000)...

Hispanic Population Trends


Hispanic Population Trends

Again, due to the same factors as previously mentioned. Illegal aliens gave birth to millions of babies during that period. That would certainly account for the increase in U.S.-born Hispanics. Without massive Hispanic illegal immigration, the Hispanic population would not have grown at such a phenomenal rate.

Furthermore, I have to question those numbers because my ex and his siblings were classified as "Hispanic" solely due to their country of origin. However, they have no Spanish ancestry whatsoever, being of French and Italian lineage. Had they entered on visas from France or Italy, the government would not have assigned that classification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Pew Research reports that illegal aliens with children are more likely to be involved with a significant other that has immigration status rather than an illegal alien (30% in a relationship with U.S. citizens, 25% with LPRs, and 45% with another illegal alien). "Anchor Babies" may not be "anchors" in those instances, as there are more immediate cures to illegal status through their spouse than any children. I'll answer the other posts when I have the opportunity, my "big project" took a little longer today.
This should come as no surprise. Naturally, their preference would be someone who can help them legalize their status. An illegal alien spouse would serve no purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
My statements are worded exactly as I intend. I will still say things like "more Mexicans enter the United States legally than illegally" (both a "visa overstay" and using a Border Crossing Card to cross and return are "legal" entries). If I have that clarity to my wording, be aware in what detail I am examining counter-claims and statements.
I think you forgot your original post. . .

Quote:
Compared to other immigrant groups in the United States, Mexican immigrants were less likely to enter as refugees; more likely to become lawful permanent residents (LPRs) as immediate family members of US citizens and LPRs; more likely to enter the United States without authorization; reported having lower levels of English proficiency and education; and were more likely to be of working age.
You were saying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
In time (it is going to be involved for the length of her response, and mostly relating to what she sees as Mexican "scam marriages"), you have my attention for now...
What is your fixation with marriage fraud? Furthermore, how does it relate to the topic of this thread? But, if your goal is to prove that most marriages between U.S. citizens and illegal alien Mexicans are unrelated to green card aspirations, you'll have a hard time proving your point.
 
Old 03-09-2013, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,015,841 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
This should come as no surprise. Naturally, their preference would be someone who can help them legalize their status. An illegal alien spouse would serve no purpose...
Correction to the percentages for U.S. citizen and LPRs (but the illegal alien SO percentage stays the same), I found the original image I had used:

 
Old 03-09-2013, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,826,194 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Correction to the percentages for U.S. citizen and LPRs (but the illegal alien SO percentage stays the same), I found the original image I had used:


I must be missing something, because I only see a chart containing stats for illegal alien households consisting of couples with children both married and cohabitating. I don't see anything specifically pertaining to illegal aliens with spouses who are U.S. citizens, LPRs, or others with legal status. So, please explain how the chart you posted addresses my following post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar
This should come as no surprise. Naturally, their preference would be someone who can help them legalize their status. An illegal alien spouse would serve no purpose.
 
Old 03-09-2013, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,015,841 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...Mind you, this is only a drop in the bucket. Marriage fraud is rampant, not only for Mexicans, but numerous other nationalities. So yes, it is only human nature to be suspicious of marriages between U.S. citizens and illegal aliens. Heck, I wouldn't marry a legal immigrant if he didn't already have a green card.

Hello, I Love You, Won

21 individuals charged in "Operation Knot So Fast 2012"

USDOJ: US Attorney's Office - Middle District of Florida

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/08...509orlando.htm

Maryland Immigration Attorney Pleads Guilty to Sham-Marriage Conspiracy - News and Features - Baltimore City Paper

Feds: Jilted boyfriend exposes actress' sham marriage - CNN

Convicted. . .

Entertainment | Mexican actress sentenced in marriage fraud case | Seattle Times Newspaper

A duped man. . .

ImmigrationFraudVictims • View topic - Here is my Story. Mexican VAWA Fraud. Martha ...
The conversation wasn't about marriage fraud in general, or marriages to illegal aliens, it was about marriages to Mexicans:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
...There are also countless documented cases of "scam" marriages involving Mexicans. Should that be considered an indication that every marriage between a citizen and Mexican illegal alien is fraudulent? Of course not! However, given the prevalence of this practice, it is only human nature (not spite) to be somewhat suspect of those marriages...
How many of your quoted examples (for the "countless documented cases") specifically identified Mexicans as the violators? You've quoted a single case of a Mexican soap opera star twice. I don't accept another linked forum post as proof the case is as he describes.

My question was why you believe Mexicans to have a higher "prevalence" of marriage fraud, when you can't find the number of supporting sources you claim?...

The topic is "Mexican immigrants in the United States", where discussion relevant to Mexican immigration is still on-topic...
 
Old 03-09-2013, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,826,194 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
The conversation wasn't about marriage fraud in general, or marriages to illegal aliens, it was about marriages to Mexicans:



How many of your quoted examples (for the "countless documented cases") specifically identified Mexicans as the violators? You've quoted a single case of a Mexican soap opera star twice. I don't accept another linked forum post as proof the case is as he describes.

My question was why you believe Mexicans to have a higher "prevalence" of marriage fraud, when you can't find the number of supporting sources you claim?...

The topic is "Mexican immigrants in the United States", where discussion relevant to Mexican immigration is still on-topic...
Why are you hijacking your own thread? If you want to continue to discuss immigration marriage fraud, why not continue the thread in question? However, no one other than YOU is trying to make this an issue of marriage between U.S. citizens and LEGAL Mexican immigrants.
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