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Old 10-27-2007, 06:36 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,669,881 times
Reputation: 1719

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Quote:
What about an FMG who is in the country legally, has passed the licensure exam and is willing to work for $25,000 a year less than you
Cite examples of FMGs that outbid American doctors in pay, and I bet you'll find none. The FMGs who are licensed and legally work here receive about the same compensation as American grads. The reason is that once US residency training is over and the trainee is board certified, the FMG's skills are deemed equivalent to that of the American grads. What decides compensation is the ability to treat patients competently and humanely. If your patients like you, you will get compensated. In other words, MARKET FORCES. Supply and demand. These will determine how much money you make. It doesn't matter where you graduated from. Besides, the entities that cut your paycheck (i.e. insurance companies, HMOs, Medicare, Medicaid) are largely unaware of your nationality. All they see when they receive a bill from a doctor is a number (called the National Provider Identification number). It is as close to a level playing field meritocracy as one could get.
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Old 10-27-2007, 06:42 PM
 
24 posts, read 38,459 times
Reputation: 20
MOD CUT No one should have to compete with a person who is not here legally. I know a lot of Mexican contruction workers, LEGAL CITIZENS, that are just as upset as my "WHITE" friends, because it's not about race, it's about being an American and being able to afford to live here. The wages the illegals make is not enough to support a household here, but it a buttload of money in Mexico, where a majority of them send their money to. If they want to become American citizens, pay taxes, pay health insurance, pay for health care and everything else an American citizen HAS to pay for that illegals are allowed to skip, and are still willing to take a job in construction that USED to pay $25 an hour for $8 and hour then we'll have a different discussion.

Last edited by NewToCA; 10-27-2007 at 07:28 PM.. Reason: orphaned comments
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Old 10-27-2007, 06:56 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,669,881 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
If they want to become American citizens, pay taxes, pay health insurance, pay for health care and everything else an American citizen HAS to pay for that illegals are allowed to skip, and are still willing to take a job in construction that USED to pay $25 an hour for $8 and hour then we'll have a different discussion.
Then legalize them. If they risked life and limb to come here to work and contribute to the US economy.....that is the best single indicator that they deserve US citizenship. That is even a better indicator than the attitudes displayed by natural born Americans who think they are entitled to a job just by accident of birth.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:02 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,719,093 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Cite examples of FMGs that outbid American doctors in pay, and I bet you'll find none. The FMGs who are licensed and legally work here receive about the same compensation as American grads. The reason is that once US residency training is over and the trainee is board certified, the FMG's skills are deemed equivalent to that of the American grads.
No, he won't outbid you. He'll underbid you. He's licensed, boarded, just as good as you and he wants your job. He's willing to take less money to get it. Couldn't happen? Why not? Radiologists in India currently read US x-rays in some hospitals. The advent of technology has made that possible. Besides, we are always 'evolving' (or some such thing) and should embrace change, right? There is nothing special about you. Under the right circumstances, you could lose your job- just like everybody else.
Quote:
What decides compensation is the ability to treat patients competently and humanely. If your patients like you, you will get compensated. In other words, MARKET FORCES. Supply and demand. These will determine how much money you make.
It really is a shame DH is on call tonight.
So whether or not your patients like you is what determines how much money you make? What if your patients like you very much but simply do not have money to pay their bills? The poor, rural 'white people' who don't pay their ER bills may think that you are terrific. But you've already told us your practice is in the red, so I guess that doesn't help much. Maybe the fact that your practice is running a deficit is because no one likes you! How about the patholgist who makes alot of money? His patients don't even see him. A truly outstanding surgeon may have a dismal personality but if he is really good, hospitals and patients are going to fight over him. And alot of his rough edges can be smoothed over with an excellent nursing and office staff running interference.
Quote:
It doesn't matter where you graduated from. Besides, the entities that cut your paycheck (i.e. insurance companies, HMOs, Medicare, Medicaid) are largely unaware of your nationality. All they see when they receive a bill from a doctor is a number (called the National Provider Identification number). It is as close to a level playing field meritocracy as one could get.
I've got Halloween pumpkins to carve. Be back later.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:05 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,718,018 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
The wages the illegals make is not enough to support a household here, but it a buttload of money in Mexico, where a majority of them send their money to.
not really an accurate statement. The cost of living in Mexico approximates that of the US, the wages are about 10% of American tho.

Last time I was down there the price of gas was about the same as the US, consider paying a weeks wages to fill your gas tank...

Bye the Bye, racism is usually based ultimately on economic fear. That was one reason the blacks in the post reconstruct South were kept oppressed.
Today we have plenty of people saying that the illegals are taking jobs from Americans. I don't think there is an illegal or an unskilled worker at all that is doing a job I would want.

Who are these people taking jobs from?

Last edited by greatbasinguide; 10-27-2007 at 07:14 PM..
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:23 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,669,881 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
No, he won't outbid you. He'll underbid you. He's licensed, boarded, just as good as you and he wants your job. He's willing to take less money to get it. Couldn't happen? Why not? Radiologists in India currently read US x-rays in some hospitals.
Radiologists in India are in India. So if you're afraid of outsourcing, the solution is to bring them here so pay will be at par with US radiologists. And outbid is the correct term. When you outbid someone in a bidding war for a contract, it means you've undercut the competitor's price. Please consult a dictionary.

So far you've not presented examples of FMGs working here in the US that have undercut American grads.

Quote:
But you've already told us your practice is in the red, so I guess that doesn't help much. Maybe the fact that your practice is running a deficit is because no one likes you!
Another case of poor reading comprehension skills on your part. The hospital I have practice privileges in is in the red. My practice itself is in the black, even though we have to write off some bills sometimes. Not unusual even in the most lucrative of practices.

Quote:
How about the patholgist who makes alot of money? His patients don't even see him. A truly outstanding surgeon may have a dismal personality but if he is really good, hospitals and patients are going to fight over him. And alot of his rough edges can be smoothed over with an excellent nursing and office staff running interference.
Two words: MARKET FORCES. If the demand for the pathologist's and the surgeon's skills are there, and their positives outweigh their negatives, then they will make money. They don't have to deal directly with patients, but if their services provide overall value to the patient, the patient will be satisfied and the doctors will be compensated.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:30 PM
 
24 posts, read 38,459 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
not really an accurate statement. The cost of living in Mexico approximates that of the US, the wages are about 10% of American tho.

Last time I was down there the price of gas was about the same as the US, consider paying a weeks wages to fill your gas tank...

Bye the Bye, racism is usually based ultimately on economic fear. That was one reason the blacks in the post reconstruct South were kept oppressed.
Today we have plenty of people saying that the illegals are taking jobs from Americans. I don't think there is an illegal or an unskilled worker at all that is doing a job I would want.

Who are these people taking jobs from?
Did you not read my earlier post about construction jobs? I know lots of people who want those jobs.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,757 posts, read 23,264,589 times
Reputation: 6092
ALL POSTERS - Please practice some self control in the comments and responses, this thread is close to being closed, despite some passionate discussions of ideas.

You're wearing out my MOD CUT keys in the keyboard, and my patience...

Last edited by NewToCA; 10-27-2007 at 09:32 PM..
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:37 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,718,018 times
Reputation: 350
ndfmnlf, I admire your use of the language and your ability to respond with reason to people who are driven by ideology to ignore rationality.

Your objectives however will never be attained. Idealogues are vaccinated against facts. What is true and accurate will never outweigh what they believe.

Quote:
Did you not read my earlier post about construction jobs? I know lots of people who want those jobs.
If I am a craftsman you want me, you don't want the low bidder. If there is a craftsman out there who is illegal and he underbids me, good for him, if he does as good a job as I, then he has penalized himself, he should be charging more.

Most of the workers on construction jobs are not craftsmen, they are laborers, I don't want that work, and you should not either.

Look at Rome for a moment, 80% of the population were slaves, they did the low end jobs so the Romans were free to pursue the high end. You and I and the rest of us should always be striving for the best we can be and the best we can do. If a workman is happy with $30,-40,000 a year, that is fine, but, in this economy you should be educated and or trained well enough to double that, especially if you want a home, car, wife, children.
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Old 10-27-2007, 07:41 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,669,881 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
ndfmnlf, I admire your use of the language and your ability to respond with reason to people who are driven by ideology to ignore rationality.

Thanks. I'm enjoying my coffee breaks! hehehe.......
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