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Old 10-25-2007, 06:42 AM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,657,999 times
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Quote:
That's exactly the point doc. We already have enough deadbeat, legal citizens, stealing from us, we don't need illegal ones as well. Are you a doc in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona or California? If not, you may not have the huge wave of illegals that we have experienced here. However, get ready, this distorted picture will soon become your reality.
We have a sizeable Mexican population where I work. The Mexicans are employed in agriculture and construction. I don't know whether they are legal or illegal. What I do know is that the people who swamp our ER and don't pay their bills are not the Mexicans (or Hispanics) but rather the poor local whites.
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Old 10-25-2007, 08:22 AM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,957,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Can you cite examples of hospitals that were shut down by illegal aliens? Show some examples please, then we can talk.
Quote:
The annual cost for uncompensated emergency care to Mexican Border States (California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas) is $200 million. California taxpayers paid $79 million for illegal alien health care. Four major Los Angeles hospitals were bankrupted and shut down in 2004. Texas paid $74 million. Georgia ran a $63 million deficit for 64,000 unpaid doctor visits in 2002. Cochise County, Arizona spent 30% of its annual budget on uncompensated care to illegal aliens. University Medical Care in Tucson, Arizona spent $10 million on uncompensated care to illegal aliens. 77 hospitals in the four Border States now face financial emergencies. Legal citizens are forced to fly emergency patients to other cities for treatment. Taxes are going up to compensate.

Meanwhile, as a result of the Federal Emergency Medical Act, Mexican ambulance drivers are transporting hospital patients unable to pay for medical care in Mexico to facilities in the United States. The ambulances are driving through unguarded potions of the border with "little resistance" at the instruction of Mexican officials
Tom DeWeese -- Why Illegal Immigration is a Threat to the United States, Part 1

You can also do a simple google search to find out more.


And as far as your "poor whites" using up Emergency room care, I'm sure it has NOTHING to do with the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fair
FAIR research suggests that "between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers. Some native workers lose not just wages but their jobs through immigrant competition. An estimated 1,880,000 American workers are displaced from their jobs every year by immigration; the cost for providing welfare and assistance to these Americans is over $15 billion a year." The National Research Council, part of the National Academy of Sciences, found in 1997 that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000.8
Economic costs of mass immigration (legal and illegal immigration) - CAIR - Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform

But that's OK, as a "doc" you are most likely largely insulated from the effects of illegal immigration, economically and to your neighborhood through devaluation and increases in crime.

Great that you have that luxury to be so humanitarian.
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Old 10-25-2007, 08:43 AM
 
1,393 posts, read 2,489,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Can you cite examples of hospitals that were shut down by illegal aliens? Show some examples please, then we can talk.
I don't know the names but there have been a few on the news here in houston talking about having to close because of the illegals not paying anything...These were in south Texas next to Mexico.

Reported by the Harris county tax collector. Illegals cost the Harris county tax payer 85 million dollars in 2005 for medical bills at county hospitals and this is above anything they paid at the hospitals or in hospital taxes. And I am sure it has gone up in the last two years.....
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Old 10-25-2007, 08:48 AM
 
1,393 posts, read 2,489,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
From what I see from direct experience (I'm a doc), the great majority of patients who come to our ER and don't pay their bills are poor whites (uninsured or on Medicaid). They come to the ER for things like colds and minor illnesses that are not real emergencies. Many are intoxicated or high on drugs. So from someone who actually works in the trenches, I would have to say that you are portraying a distorted picture of the situation.
And I can take you to a hospital about 2 miles from my house and show you that the people in the ER after hours are 99 percent hispanic....I'm not saying they are illegal.....So maybe that picture is distorted by where YOU live. If you are a Doctor I suggest you get out more and see the rest of the world around you.


Another thing too, I can take you to the local SS office and it is full of young hispanic women with small children, WHY. Twenty years ago you could go there and there would only be one or two people there and now it is full everyday. What are they getting there ??????????????

Last edited by texanborn; 10-25-2007 at 08:59 AM..
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Old 10-25-2007, 08:56 AM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,657,999 times
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Four major Los Angeles hospitals were bankrupted and shut down in 2004
Names of hospitals please? It is funny that the article you cite doesn't actually identify these hospitals. It just puts the canard up there and mixes it up with the anti-immigration polemic to supposedly establish causation in the hope that careless undiscerning readers will not pick up on it. Deceitful if I may say so. And just because these hospitals shut down doesn't mean they were shut down because of illegals. They may have been victims of other things, such as poor management, increased competition, and abuse of the ER not necessarily by illegals but by native born Americans who don't pay their bills. No sir, you need to establish a direct cause and effect relationship between the illegal aliens and the 4 LA hospitals that you claim to have been bankrupted.

Quote:
But that's OK, as a "doc" you are most likely largely insulated from the effects of illegal immigration, economically and to your neighborhood through devaluation and increases in crime.
Actually I pay more in taxes to support the welfare state than I care to count. From my vantage point, the people who have taken advantage of the welfare state are not the illegals but native born Americans who know how to play the system very well. So if you have a beef against overutilization of health care resources, maybe you should start deporting your fellow Americans who are too lazy to work and simply wait for hand-outs from the state while complaining that their jobs are being taken away from them by the illegals. Not that I would advocate that, but that seems to be the logical conclusion of your argument.
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:12 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Can you cite examples of hospitals that were shut down by illegal aliens? Show some examples please, then we can talk.
Dude......you're on!
(disclaimer: There are not going to be articles in the media stating 'hospital shut down by illegal aliens'. If that is your standard of proof, you will be disappointed.)
note the dates on many of the articles
this is a problem that has been ongoing for quite some time

Quote:
Bankrupt hospital serving Hispanic immigrants closing
Submitted by Editor on August 16, 2004 - Health
Los Angeles, AP - A financially troubled hospital that served as a principal care destination for Hispanic immigrants must now close its doors and it has many concerned the closure will overwhelm resources in the city's remaining emergency rooms.
Moderator cut: copyrighted article
http://www.nshp.org/?q=node/717


Quote:
Feds to fund migrant care
$45 million to reimburse Arizona hospitals


The Arizona Republic
May. 10, 2005
WASHINGTON - Starting today, hospitals and doctors in Arizona and other states can charge the federal government for the costs of providing emergency care to undocumented immigrants.

Moderator cut: copyrighted article
http://quipsclipsrantsraves.blogspot.com/2005/06/us-government-to-help-fund-hospital.html (broken link)[/quote]
Quote:
Grady to close dialysis center

By CRAIG SCHNEIDER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 10/16/07
Grady Memorial Hospital plans to close its outpatient dialysis center, which is losing close to $4 million a year.

The decision represents a major cut to services for the poor at the cash-starved hospital.

Moderator cut: copyrighted article
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/10/16/grady_1017_web.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat (broken link)


Quote:
January 10, 2003


MCCAIN, KYL REQUEST FUNDS TO ALLEVIATE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT HEALTH CRISIS ALONG BORDER STATES


Washington, DC - U.S. Senators John McCain (R-AZ) and Jon Kyl (R-AZ), along with the rest of the Arizona Congressional delegation, today sent a letter to President Bush requesting an additional $200 million dollars in the FY'04 budget to ease the financial burden that uncompensated health care for undocumented immigrants places on the states' hospitals.

Moderator cut: copyrighted article
http://mccain.senate.gov/press_office/view_article.cfm?id=411 (broken link)


Want more? I'll be back later.

Last edited by Yac; 12-14-2007 at 02:10 AM..
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
17 posts, read 36,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusisLord View Post
I know Jesus loves illegal immigrants regardless of their legal status like I know he loves every human being, including me and you! So I choose to love people regardless of law breaking habits! With that said, grew up in California, know many illegal immigrants who are good and honest people! By many, I mean over a 100!
'I choose to love people regardless of law breaking habits?'
That's really nice of you! I can picture it now...one day your a victim of idenity theft yet your out there with some doughnuts and a 'pat on the back' for the person who did it to you.....thats gold! lmao
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:31 AM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,706,273 times
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Quote:
2) Because you do not want illegal immigration does not make you a racist. I don't care where they come from, EVERYONE should have to go through the same process. Keep playing the race card, or again compare them to slaves, I guess you have to grasp for straws when you have no real arguement.
There is this conception that those who understand the roots of illegal immigration are somehow "liberals" when in fact the illegal immigration serves the needs of big business and you!, and is supported by big business.

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals recently set aside enforcement of illegals with false social security cards. They did so at the urging of businessmen.

Let us (lettuce?) take three counties in California, Monterey, San Luis Obispo, and Santa Barbara. Thousands of field workers work in these counties. If the ICE enforcement had taken place the great majority of these workers would be out of their jobs.

Immediately the price of produce would shoot through the roof
The farmers would go broke
Salinas, Watsonville, King City, Arroyo Grande, Oceano, Guadalupe, Santa Maria and others would look like ghosttowns, stores and business would shut down, rents would not be paid, the numbers of homeless would skyrocket.

The ripple effect on the economy of the entire state would make the fire damage appear to be small potatoes. It would be an economic disaster which would affect you personally.

If we extrapolate the enforcement out to the entire state and even the nation this county would be plunged into a severe economic depression.

I don't care if you are pro or con illegal or immigration. It exists, and it exists to serve you! It is a product of the needs of business to supply products to you!, at affordable prices.

The healthcare costs and other negatives you whine about are the fault of largely Republican businessmen working to supply your needs. plain and simple, "we have seen the enemy and he is us."

Quote:
That's really nice of you! I can picture it now...one day your a victim of idenity theft yet your out there with some doughnuts and a 'pat on the back' for the person who did it to you.....thats gold! lmao
Jesus lose this round eh? Take that, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and replace it with "Do unto others!"
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:34 AM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,957,665 times
Reputation: 8519
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Names of hospitals please? It is funny that the article you cite doesn't actually identify these hospitals. It just puts the canard up there and mixes it up with the anti-immigration polemic to supposedly establish causation in the hope that careless undiscerning readers will not pick up on it. Deceitful if I may say so.
The poster above me has provided some information for you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
And just because these hospitals shut down doesn't mean they were shut down because of illegals. They may have been victims of other things, such as poor management, increased competition, and abuse of the ER not necessarily by illegals but by native born Americans who don't pay their bills. No sir, you need to establish a direct cause and effect relationship between the illegal aliens and the 4 LA hospitals that you claim to have been bankrupted.

Fine. Maybe you'll accept the words of the California State Association of Hospitals, which is not afraid to mince words:

Quote:
Overburdened by the uninsured and overwhelmed by illegal immigration (search), public health care in Los Angeles is on life support.

Sixty percent of the county's uninsured patients are not U.S. citizens. More than half are here illegally. About 2 million undocumented aliens in Los Angeles County alone are crowding emergency rooms because they can't afford to see a doctor.

According to the State Association of Hospitals (search), California's public health system is "on the brink of collapse." In Los Angeles County, patients can wait four days for a hospital bed and up to two years for gallbladder surgery.

"The hospitals are closing because of the totality of the uninsured," said Dr. Thomas Garthwaite, director of the Los Angeles County Health Department (search). "If you're legally a resident in California and you're poor, you have a right to basic services."
FOXNews.com - L.A. Emergency Rooms Full of Illegal Immigrants - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum


Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf
Actually I pay more in taxes to support the welfare state than I care to count. From my vantage point, the people who have taken advantage of the welfare state are not the illegals but native born Americans who know how to play the system very well.
B.F.D.

The fact remains (and your "I pay so much taxes" comment confirms) that you are obviously immune due to your socioeconomic status to the effects of illegal immigration. You are not affected by overcrowding at schools, loss of your wages or job due to wage pressure and competition from illegal labor. Your neighbordhood isn't depreciating and deteriorating. Your not affected by increases in crime and gang violence.

So...color me unimpressed by your arms-length humanitarianism. You'd be singing a different tune if 20 of them, hardworking and well-meaning as ever, decided to move into the house next door and bring with them all the attendant mess that other, less fortunate neighborhoods have had to deal with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf
So if you have a beef against overutilization of health care resources, maybe you should start deporting your fellow Americans who are too lazy to work and simply wait for hand-outs from the state while complaining that their jobs are being taken away from them by the illegals. Not that I would advocate that, but that seems to be the logical conclusion of your argument.

Oh, as the one who demands so much "proof" and "backup" for every statement made, what proof do you have that those legal Americans you see who are unemployed and uninsured are in that position because they are "lazy"?

Do you even HAVE any blue collar or skilled trades people in your familial or social circle to know what has been happening to American workers this passed decade?

Your obvious contempt for your fellow disadvantaged legal Americans and glowing review of "hard working, honest" illegal immigrants speaks volumes about your "vantage point!"

Last edited by TriMT7; 10-25-2007 at 09:51 AM..
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:35 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
From what I see from direct experience (I'm a doc), the great majority of patients who come to our ER and don't pay their bills are poor whites (uninsured or on Medicaid). They come to the ER for things like colds and minor illnesses that are not real emergencies. Many are intoxicated or high on drugs. So from someone who actually works in the trenches, I would have to say that you are portraying a distorted picture of the situation.
This sounds like 'racism' and 'sterotyping' to me. But what's that you say? It's the 'truth'? Got it.
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