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Old 10-25-2007, 08:46 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,514,800 times
Reputation: 3019

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post

.America is a temporary political construction like every other nationstate that has ever existed, I cannot see too much reason to get worked up about it. There was a time when it did not exist and there will be a time when it doesn't exist.
Well, OK, you have a point---but of what value is it?. There will come a time when YOU don't exist, and neither will I--but I'm sure in no hurry to get there anytime soon. Can't we try to keep "existing" for a while longer, at least? If so, then we'll only be able to accompish this by at least ACTING as if we had a future....

And of course there's the matter of American culture. True, many of us can't precisely define it in any scientific terms-but I think it's safe to say we'd sure as h*ll miss if if it were gone. Care to do a jail sentence in Paraguay?---or have open-heart surgery in Angola?---or go through a lawsuit as a defendant in Malaysia?..or be detained by the police in Iran? I know I sure wouldn't. Probably because at times like that I'd be missing American culture.
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Old 10-25-2007, 08:55 PM
 
4,183 posts, read 6,504,125 times
Reputation: 1734
Quote:
I would like to make one point, christopher columbus was italian.
and the country he went on the expedition was spain.
so what kind of english did he speak?
Columbus most likely did not speak English but that's not what I said. What I said was:

The English we speak today is totally different from the English spoken at the time of Christopher Columbus.

Go figure.
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Old 10-25-2007, 08:56 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 795,721 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Let me be clear about this, I am not expressing right or wrong, good or bad. Their should not be illegal immigration, but to think that Hispanic illegal immigrants are welfare recipients, lazy, bad people is just nonsense and is very likely racism.

I see on this board emotion not facts, opinions not facts, base your opinions on the actual data.


Daily Oregonian

Las Vegas Review Journal

Foundation for economic education



WSJ excerpt;

Full article; Immigration's Costs -- And Benefits - WSJ.com (broken link)

emotions aside,i invite you to contact the albuquerque district attorney, see if you can get any farther than we have.
my husband was severly injured by an illegal alien, and though even with our concerns and pleas for authorities not to release the man pending sentencing because of his legal status, and the fact he was a flight risk, the man was released on his promise to appear, and instead, ran from justice for nine years.
we were denied the right to attend the sentecing trial because authorities failed to inform us of his capture and extradition, the facts of illegal immigration being bad are real..not imaginary....we are living proof.


case # crcr 961553
state of new mexico vs. roberto flores.
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:20 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 795,721 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
From what I see from direct experience (I'm a doc), the great majority of patients who come to our ER and don't pay their bills are poor whites (uninsured or on Medicaid). They come to the ER for things like colds and minor illnesses that are not real emergencies. Many are intoxicated or high on drugs. So from someone who actually works in the trenches, I would have to say that you are portraying a distorted picture of the situation.


are you serious?
seriously...who do you think pays the illegal immigrants medical bills? i dont want to....
but the illegal immigrant does not...no...we , the taxpayer , pays their bills, yet cannot afford to insure our own families...unbelievable that you could even go here.
my husband works in the trenches too, though he is "only" blue collar.
but he has never expected or asked for a handout.
only a hand up a few times.

you say you are an m.d


well great, good for you, do you drive a lexus?
a hummer? can you afford for your child to break a leg, or get hit by a car?
well, alot of people cannot.
do you think people who cannot afford insurance really have regular doctors who they can go to for a cold or a minor illness?
imho..you have chosen to take care of the ailing....doesnt matter if you think it's minor, or not, it may not be minor to the person who is sick...or hurt....and in the beginning of medicine it wasnt about the monetary gain, it was really about doing your part.
we folks who are poor and white., unable to afford healthcare and driving chevys are tired,too.
i apologize for the anger... if i have offened you.
it's just the way i feel.
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:45 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 2,084,305 times
Reputation: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
English must really be a tough language to understand as exemplified by your response above. Where in my post did I say I did not respect American culture? What I said was, you guys who force others to conform to American culture had better define what it is you want them to conform to. The burden of defining American culture lies on you. Example, you want immigrants to speak English but you didn't even comprehend the simple point I was trying to make above - a point which I made in plain English. You read something into what I wrote that was not even there.
Ok then, you say you respect the American culture but your posts seem to not believe in it. We've had a distinct main culture starting with our early immigrants who brought their own traditions, yet all of America's heart was in our main culture and is what defined us as Americans, it's the way we lived from day to day and the history we created together. Take So. America, it has many languages and different traditions, from Spanish influence, etc., but a similar culture throughout, a very different culture than is American culture. Many of us do not want illegals coming here replacing our culture with theirs, which is 'for the first time ever' what is happening in border states and elsewhere now.
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:07 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 2,084,305 times
Reputation: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
American Culture, in the upper midwest they sit around long tables drinking beer and singing songs and they say uffda
in New England they live in tidy white houses, build stone walls, and don't sing when they drink beer.
In Boston the Irish live in Southie, the Italians in North end and they don't mingle, the blacks live in Roxbury,
American Culture? Salt Lake City and New Orleans, Atlanta and Boise, Gabbs Nevada and New York City.

Wear a "Gus" in New Jersey and people will think you are gay, don't wear one in Elko and people will think you are Californian.

In parts of Chicago, Polish, Detroit Muslim, San Francisco and Little Rock Arkansas.

What is American Culture?

Doctors? Most of the Doctors I see now are East Indian with wives in sari's. My primary care physician is Filipino with a heavy accent. Mama's is African American with Gold Chains and BMW.

Fer Chris's sake. There is no American Culture, this country is a stewpot, common only in its differences. In town there are Mexicans eating at Thai restaurants, Thais eating at Mexican restaurants, Chinese at steakhouses, ranchers at Chinese.

The music my children listen to is completely foreign, whiney stuff sung in high tones I can't tell the boys from the girls, I embarass my children if I play Merle, or Porter, or Tom T Hall when I pick them up from practice. My wife listens to glitter rock and roll, makes me ill..

American Culture can only be defined by undefinable.

America is a temporary political construction like every other nationstate that has ever existed, I cannot see too much reason to get worked up about it. There was a time when it did not exist and there will be a time when it doesn't exist.
Culture is definable in every country. Think of Mexican culture, the German culture, Italian culture, Asian culture...though they each 'now' have different countries traditions in them such as food, music, dance, dress, products...but they still retain their very own culture based on their way of life and history, and their culture is no where else in the world. It's the same for the U.S.A. In fact, American culture has greatly influenced many countries from the way we dress, Hollywood, democracy and our language, and so on.
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:24 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 795,721 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
The burden of proof is on those who demand others to conform to a specific way of life. If you want people to conform to American culture, then it is only fair that YOU define American culture instead of the other way around.

okay...i will try to define "american culture" for you...i was kinda hoping you'd get it on your own...but okay...okay..i'll try.
though it is somewhat hard to define for most....
imho...............................
american culture is one world order.(dont get scared)...a melting pot is what i'm thinking of. but a melting pot of legal immigration, secured borders, america welcoming anyone who would ask to be a citizen or tourist to our shores... regardless of their nationality. a melting pot, without one singular culture...all embracing each other as one..communicating with each other...loving each other as human.
it was never designed or intended to be one "culture" ... it was intended to be a nation of many culutures, but as one nation. with one common language....some of the "american " culture is taking off your ballcap when the national anthem is being palyed and placing your hand over your heart , as you say the pledge of alliegence. it is eating turkey at thanksgiving and sometimes having a broke down car in your driveway (sorry folks illegals arent the only ones, rednecks and doctors do it too)lol....american culture is what others are illegally immgrating to the u.s. to grab...so why is it , "american culture" , is such a bad thing to some who claim they are loyal to the bald eagle?
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:28 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 795,721 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
We have a sizeable Mexican population where I work. The Mexicans are employed in agriculture and construction. I don't know whether they are legal or illegal. What I do know is that the people who swamp our ER and don't pay their bills are not the Mexicans (or Hispanics) but rather the poor local whites.
are you also employed in the billing department at your hospital , or are you simply assuming that this is the case?
curious minds want to know.
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:45 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,514,800 times
Reputation: 3019
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivski View Post
okay...i will try to define "american culture" for you...i was kinda hoping you'd get it on your own...but okay...okay..i'll try.
though it is somewhat hard to define for most....
:
Thanks for trying Vivski--though I'm not sure some people will ever "get" that America has a culture, just because it's a "mix" of cultures. A mestizo is a "mix" of races---does this mean he "doesn't have a race"? Because strawberry-banana ice cream has no single flavor, do we then say that it "doesn't have any taste"?-----Ridiculous!...

Perhaps the following will help some of our more "stubborn" readers

AMERICAN CULTURE LOOKS FAVORABLY ON:
(1) Honesty
(2) Polite conversation
(3) The Rule of Law
(4) Protection of the rights of women and minorities
(5) Free Speech
(6) Special protections for children and young people
(7) Freedom of religion

These are features of many cultures, but in America we espouse all of these as our own..We as Americans feel these are GOOD qualities. Meanwhile, though...

AMERICAN CULTURE DEFINITELY FROWNS UPON:

(1) Incest
(2) Settling arguments with violence
(3) Revenge killings
(4) Using mass rape as an Instrument of War
(5) Selling of children into prostitution
(6) Beating of wives to "put them in their place"
(7) Eating dogs or cats

These are ALSO features of many cultures, in different parts of the world, but not here. In the rare instances that these DO occur here, they are prosecuted...because they are NOT part of the American culture.

Seems pretty clear to me. American culture, like any other, condones some practices, while condemning (and criminalizing) others. Some things are "American" values, and some are not.

Hope this helps point out the definition....
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Old 10-25-2007, 10:50 PM
 
Location: new mexico
447 posts, read 795,721 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
It makes no logical sense to be pro or anti illegal immigration. It exists, it exists for reasons. To ignore those reasons and to rail against illegals is just silly.
To complain that if the southwest were still Mexico there would be no Hoover Dam or Golden Gate bridge is nearly racist.

It might be better served to consider that if the southwest were still Mexico there would be no need to dam the rivers for power, it may have been that the population of the Southwest would have lived within its means instead of in a Cadillac Desert, a Cadillac that is careening off the road.

Throughout history one of the very finest lifestyle a person could live was the life of the Californio Ranchero. Nothing which America has created after it destroyed the Ranchos comes near to comparing.
what?
now we are getting down to the real point you are here.right?
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