illegal immigration; facts not emotion (anti-American, politicians, leader, parties)

[greatbasinguide]

And people like you support slave like labor conditions for illegals so you can enjoy cheap produce, cheap homes, and cheap living.

This stuff is such baloney. The field workers are unionized, wages in the field run $20-30 an hour. Yes it is hard work long hours, but they are fairly well compensated.

As a youth I did the same work, $1.10 an hour, hard work but it did not kill me. I still have the callus pad between my thumb and forefinger from years of using a hoe, and I am pushing late my late 50's.

Stop and think about this, not cheap lettuce, but lettuce at all. Right now there is an ICE crackdown in the fields, and there are crops rotting in the fields because there aren't enough workers to harvest.

Don't think cheap, think none, no lettuce, no celery, no artichokes, no bell peppers, no Kale, no Broccoli, no cabbage (KFC goes under cause they have no coleslaw to sell) and ghastly thought, no wine.

As for 'Mexicans' working under those conditions: if they were legal; they would likely lose a lot of their 'work ethic'------because they would have rights and can then demand them.

Some workers are legal, some aren't some are third and fourth generation American, if you can tell them apart by their work ethic you are a better man than I.

If us Americans are too arrogant to work at 'menial' jobs: either the wages go up; or we as a nation do not deserve to exist.

Arrogant? Americans for the most part value education, those who are so marginalized that they have no skills and would be considered for field work have no work ethic, and lack the stamina to work long hours.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

BINGO.

It's easy to see through the smoke. Capitalists always put #1 first, even if it looks like they're looking out for the interests of #9.

Unbridled capitalism is evil, yes.

And; I lay about 90% of the illegal immigrant problem squarely on the 'American' business owners who are greedy-------they need to be rounded up, tried in courts of law then if found guilty suffer the seizure of their assets/jailed.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by greatbasinguide

This stuff is such baloney. The field workers are unionized, wages in the field run $20-30 an hour. Yes it is hard work long hours, but they are fairly well compensated.

SOME field workers are unionized. $20-$30 hour? For what, the entire group of 100 to split?

I think there's a huge disconnect between your perceptions and experience and the realties in much of the country. I mean, we had a taco bell boycott organized by migrant tomato pickers looking for a penny extra per bushel or pound. If they were making $30 an hour, I doubt they would have bothered.

Originally Posted by greatbasinguide

As a youth I did the same work, $1.10 an hour, hard work but it did not kill me. I still have the callus pad between my thumb and forefinger from years of using a hoe, and I am pushing late my late 50's.

Stop and think about this, not cheap lettuce, but lettuce at all. Right now there is an ICE crackdown in the fields, and there are crops rotting in the fields because there aren't enough workers to harvest.

Don't think cheap, think none, no lettuce, no celery, no artichokes, no bell peppers, no Kale, no Broccoli, no cabbage (KFC goes under cause they have no coleslaw to sell) and ghastly thought, no wine.

You're STILL not getting it. We HAVE immigration procedures in place for jobs that NEED workers.

You have a tough sell ahead of you to show that 1) despite its high-paying status, no Americans can be found to do the job, and 2) there's a reason why farmers don't want to go through the normal immigration procedures every other industry has to when no American laborers can be found.

Something tells me they choose #2 because they DON'T want to comply with labor laws, but I await your response.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by greatbasinguide

This stuff is such baloney. The field workers are unionized, wages in the field run $20-30 an hour. Yes it is hard work long hours, but they are fairly well compensated.

If your wage information is indeed accurate: the agri-business people need to disseminate those facts in unemployment offices, etc.

I strongly suspect that many, many 'lazy' Americans/green card holders would champ at the bit for that kind of 'menial' employment.

Arrogant? Americans for the most part value education, those who are so marginalized that they have no skills and would be considered for field work have no work ethic, and lack the stamina to work long hours.

Refer to my first reply......and; those Americans who are the bottom of the barrel would be otherwise be on welfare/disability.......many of them would still be able to 4-6 hours a day------which at even minimum wage would go a long ways in reimbursing the system.

[saltine]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

Unbridled capitalism is evil, yes.

And; I lay about 90% of the illegal immigrant problem squarely on the 'American' business owners who are greedy-------they need to be rounded up, convicted in courts of law then if found guilty suffer the seizure of their assets/jailed.

I moved to a smaller town 10 years ago, just this year a new corporate dairy farm started up, the only help wanted ad I saw required bi-linguals. Otherwise they already had plans to bring in Spanish speaking individuals. Now our property tax has risin because of the need for addition to school and English as second language teachers and classes. All taxes from ne farm are designated to beef up roads around farm. They've had manure spills. New housing project also funded by taxpayers$$ for new employees. Yes I agree that employer needs to be convicted and everyone he greased along the way. Money is the root of evil, usually. If the small farmer wasnt ruined and giant corporate farms replacing them, we wouldnt have this problem, at least I think its a problem.

[greatbasinguide]

[quote]If your wage information is indeed accurate: the agri-business people need to disseminate those facts in unemployment offices, etc.

I strongly suspect that many, many 'lazy' Americans/green card holders would champ at the bit for that kind of 'menial' employment.

Quote:

The wages are not hidden, but if you are a farmer, you need the work to get done, if you have a worker in the field who is not hustling he needs to go. I certainly am not in the business of providing a substitute for the dole. Much field work is piece work, the harder you work, the more money you make.

"Refer to my first reply......and; those Americans who are the bottom of the barrel would be otherwise be on welfare/disability.......many of them would still be able to 4-6 hours a day------which at even minimum wage would go a long ways in reimbursing the system."

You want them working for you?

Now our property tax has risin because of the need for addition to school and English as second language teachers and classes.

Exactly the same complaint was made about Japanese farmers in California, in 1890!!! Just remember that the dairy farm also pays taxes, so does each employee.

[ndfmnlf]

This bears repeating;

Comments like that just **** me off. You got a problem with Mexicans, move. Mexicans go to work, raise families, pay taxes, fall in love, love their children just like everyone else.
People like you supported putting the Japanese in internment camps during WWII.
People like you cried about the "Yellow Peril" and outlawed asian immigration for decades.
People like you hated the Irish immigrants,
People like you hated the Italian immigrants,
People like you hated Eastern European immigrants.
People like you owned people unlike you.

You eat food, right? Vegetables once in a while? Where do you think they came from, who do you think grew them, harvested them packed them?

6:00 AM in the morning the Mexicans start work, 6 days a week. They work their butts off for you.

Every Mexican you see, you should thank, and you should thank whatever god you have that your circumstances are so much better that you do not have to do stoop labor in the fields.

Great post. I'm with you on this...I still don't understand why some Americans oppose the presence of immigrants who do the work that Americans won't do. You would think it's a win-win situation for the Mexicans and the Americans: the Mexicans earn a living which they could not find in Mexico, while the Americans get to perform other higher skilled jobs that pay more money and are less physically gruelling.

Thanks to immigration, Americans are able to specialize in technically esoteric jobs since they no longer have to pick strawberries themselves. We are a high tech country with a Silicon Valley and state-of the-art hospitals precisely because our young people have been freed from the need to clean latrines or collect garbage. They can now become software engineers, biotech researchers, rocket scientists, etc.... This results in economic progress. And because our society is progressive, the quality of life for everyone across the board is improved (including that of the Mexicans, which is why they come here in the first place).

This is comparative advantage in action. To those of you who are unfamiliar with it, comparative advantage is a concept enunciated by classical economist David Ricardo. It is the idea that both parties can benefit from trade even if one of them is better at producing everything than the other. The idea is to specialize in what you are good at and trade that for something which you can not do yourself. Let the Mexicans do what they do best, and let the rest of us do what we do best.....then, let's exchange the fruits of each of our labors to our mutual benefit. The Mexicans can buy our computers, while we get to eat their strawberries. This is capitalism at its best. This is the American way.

[saltine]

[quote=greatbasinguide
Quote:

Exactly the same complaint was made about Japanese farmers in California, in 1890!!! Just remember that the dairy farm also pays taxes, so does each employee.[/quote]
You must not have read whole thing, dairy farm taxes are wholly designated to beef up infrastructure around farm, meanwhile the rest of us pay for schooling, they only hired locals that could speak spanish, thats wrong.

[saltine]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

Great post. I'm with you on this...I still don't understand why some Americans oppose the presence of immigrants who do the work that Americans won't do.

Wow, theres that catch phrase again, currently every job in my neck of the woods is being done by Americans except for the new greedy dairy farm. How long will it be before an American construction company hires illegals around here to boost his profits and put the other guys out of business unless they hire illegals also? You see where I'm comming from?

[LOVE THE U.S.A.]

Originally Posted by JesusisLord

I know Jesus loves illegal immigrants regardless of their legal status like I know he loves every human being, including me and you! So I choose to love people regardless of law breaking habits! With that said, grew up in California, know many illegal immigrants who are good and honest people! By many, I mean over a 100!

************************************************** **********

Hey,
Illegal=contrary to the law,,,violating the law,,,,,not legal....

You can love who ever you want as I do, but by your own words, they have

LAW BREAKING HABITS...MAYBE IN CA. you people think that law breaking

habits are okay but not where I come from...ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL..see

above... GOOD AND HONEST?????? HOW DO YOU FIGURE?????

We are not talking about love we are talking about violating the

law. Because of this love are you pardoned from doing your duty as an

American to turn these law breakers in to the authorities? I think not.

I don't know any place that JESUS told us in his teaching that it is okay

to break the law, any law..

LOVE THE U.S.A.