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Old 04-01-2013, 08:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddoctor View Post
You don´t have a clue what our core values are. If you really think that, please leave this nation or "self-deport". I promise these next years will not be pleasant for you. Treating people decently under the law is an American value.

Some of you have logic and beliefs that are not much different than the Taliban. I am an Iraq and Afghan war vet, so I may have an idea. You have freedom of speech, use it with your head if you can.
Who is the "our" you are referring to? What group are you speaking for?
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff View Post
I think what he is saying as far as citizenship is; you follow the current process and get in the back of the line, but your able to remain here through the process. That is really not any different from what other pro amnesty politicians have been supporting.
Rand Paul stated that it is already "de facto amnesty", because we are not going to deport 11 million illegals. That is a fact. He still wants them to go through the process, in line, and he wants a more secure border for the future. I think that securing the border is something many don't have faith it will happen.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Here is where Rand Paul goes wrong. Why should we expand the worker visa programs when we have 23 million Americans out of work? So basically he wants illegal immigrants to be able to remain here and not be deported. The line for legal immigration forms in the immigrants homeland not within our borders. If allowed to remain here they will have a separate line for themselves withiin our borders and that isn't how it does or should work.
Rand's plan hinges, first, on having the border becoming more secure -secured by Border Patrol and Investigator General. Secondly, that a bipartisan panel determine the "number" of Visas given out each year. He isn't stating that he will hand out Visas to every Tom, Dick and Harry.

And from my experience growing up in a Rancher's home, there is work that white people will not do, my father had to have illegals come in. There is some merit to that argument.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
I was watching an interview with Paul Rand today on tv. Never once was he asked how it is feasible to allow millions of illegal immigrants to remain in our country with 23 Americans out of work. This is true of every politician regardless of party affiliation. That question is never posed to them. Why is that?
Newt Gingrich answered that question during the debates, "If you're here -- if you've come here recently, you have no ties to this country, you ought to go home. period. If you've been here 25 years and you got three kids and two grandkids, you've been paying taxes and obeying the law, you belong to a local church, I don't think we're going to separate you from your family, uproot you forcefully and kick you out."

Romney lost on his stupid, political point that they can "self-deport", among other dumb things he said.

I don't know anyone I am acquainted with who agrees to deport anyone that has roots in this country, for whatever reason. We are only in favor of sending back anyone with a criminal record.

But we all agree that the Federal government is not serious about securing our borders.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Correct. Paul demonstrated a very reasoned, balanced attitude.
He certainly explains himself well. You have to make sure you listen to what he is saying though, the media is distorting his views, which doesn't surprise me.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Rand's plan hinges, first, on having the border becoming more secure -secured by Border Patrol and Investigator General. Secondly, that a bipartisan panel determine the "number" of Visas given out each year. He isn't stating that he will hand out Visas to every Tom, Dick and Harry.

And from my experience growing up in a Rancher's home, there is work that white people will not do, my father had to have illegals come in. There is some merit to that argument.
Oh no not this there is work that "white" people won't do nonsense. I am tired of hearing it. There are plenty of white ranch hands. I note that those that spew this stuff never mention black Americans. Why is that?

My concern is for those here illegally already and that will be allowed to stay and compete for American jobs. Now we should add more visas to that also?
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
Newt Gingrich answered that question during the debates, "If you're here -- if you've come here recently, you have no ties to this country, you ought to go home. period. If you've been here 25 years and you got three kids and two grandkids, you've been paying taxes and obeying the law, you belong to a local church, I don't think we're going to separate you from your family, uproot you forcefully and kick you out."

Romney lost on his stupid, political point that they can "self-deport", among other dumb things he said.

I don't know anyone I am acquainted with who agrees to deport anyone that has roots in this country, for whatever reason. We are only in favor of sending back anyone with a criminal record.

But we all agree that the Federal government is not serious about securing our borders.
What? How did Gingrich address the problem of 23 million Americans out of work by his reply? How does someone work in this country for 25 years illegally without having used fake or stolen documents (felonies) or working under the table (tax evasion)? Is that obeying the law not to mention coming here illegally in the first place? They had no right to set up roots in this country.

What separation of family? The whole family can return to their country of origin intact. What is stupid about self-deportation? Are you saying with the job opportunites (e-verify) out of the picture, benefits and birthright citizenship removed that they would continue to remain here anyway? Romney did not lose the election on that sane proposal. I hear all the wailing and nashing of teeth over mass deportations (forcibly removing them) and then when this viable solution is suggested the pro-illegals still go balistic.

You're right our government still won't secure our border so more will continue to come. Are we going to have an amnesty every 20 years. When does it stop?
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Oh no not this there is work that "white" people won't do nonsense. I am tired of hearing it. There are plenty of white ranch hands. I note that those that spew this stuff never mention black Americans. Why is that?

My concern is for those here illegally already and that will be allowed to stay and compete for American jobs. Now we should add more visas to that also?
I am only speaking from observational experience on this issue. The illegals worked harder for my father and he found value in that. He also respected them and they respected him as well.

I am certain that broad brushing any issue is going to come up wanting, as I didn't factor in the whole country. But, in the area I grew up, this was the case. That just cannot be denied no matter how bad we wish we could.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:03 PM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,136,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
What? How did Gingrich address the problem of 23 million Americans out of work by his reply? How does someone work in this country for 25 years illegally without having used fake or stolen documents (felonies) or working under the table (tax evasion)? Is that obeying the law not to mention coming here illegally in the first place? They had no right to set up roots in this country.

What separation of family? The whole family can return to their country of origin intact. What is stupid about self-deportation? Are you saying with the job opportunites (e-verify) out of the picture, benefits and birthright citizenship removed that they would continue to remain here anyway? Romney did not lose the election on that sane proposal. I hear all the wailing and nashing of teeth over mass deportations (forcibly removing them) and then when this viable solution is suggested the pro-illegals still go balistic.

You're right our government still won't secure our border so more will continue to come. Are we going to have an amnesty every 20 years. When does it stop?
I'm listening to all solutions being put on the table. But, I can't overlook the anchor babies, which law doesn't prevent. Families that have been here so long, they have no identity with Mexico. How can we, in good, conscience send them back because the federal government didn't do their job - under ANY administration?

Then you have to figure in, in the case of Texas, Plyer v. Doe, (Texas Republicans were against it - see note below) which forced the public school system to educate illegals K-12. Gov. Rick Perry gets lambasted for wanting to give them in-state tuition. How in the world is that fair, to throw them under the bus after grade 12, when the federal government forced us to educate them? It's just a huge problem that has always started with NOT securing our border. There is a lot of violence and corruption going on. I don't know how they will eventually solve that.

Quote:
Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202 (1982), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States struck down a state statute denying funding for education to illegal immigrant children and simultaneously struck down a municipal school district's attempt to charge illegal immigrants an annual $1,000 tuition fee for each illegal immigrant student to compensate for the lost state funding.
Plyler v. Doe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As far as the unemployed Americans? Let's point fingers at who is not allowing an economic bust - over-regulation (which I blame on both parties), etc., Then we have the looming and growing Obamacare problem.

On a side note, an great industrial boom could come from Hemp that is being stymied. Hemp can be made readily into paper preventing us from cutting down so many trees. It is not the same as Marijuana and doesn't carry the same amount of THC and it environmentally healthy.

Last edited by Pressing-On; 04-04-2013 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:37 PM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
I am only speaking from observational experience on this issue. The illegals worked harder for my father and he found value in that. He also respected them and they respected him as well.

I am certain that broad brushing any issue is going to come up wanting, as I didn't factor in the whole country. But, in the area I grew up, this was the case. That just cannot be denied no matter how bad we wish we could.
Well, I would be a little upset if any of my relatives hired illegal immigrants but that's just me. It is just a myth that they work harder than Americans. They have the threat of being reported and deported on their heads so they are compliant with their employers and appear to work harder based on that. Putting in a lot of overtime while getting the same paycheck as an American would for 8 hours work appears to make it look like they are working harder also when it is all about the profits that the empoyer can make off of them.

I keep hearing how the Hispanic community in general are harder workers than other groups so why aren't their citizen counterparts being hired for those jobs then rather than illegal immigrants? Hint...they would have to pay them more than they can get away with paying an illegal immigrant. Once you realize this whole thing is about greed on the employers part rather than the excuse they can't find a hard working American the truth shall set you free.
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