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Old 02-22-2011, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,954,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I hear ya but I am concerned about my grandchildren's future having to live in a third world country.
^^^^This
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Old 02-22-2011, 08:33 PM
 
18,856 posts, read 30,475,967 times
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I read that "Jose Garcia" will be a more common name in the US than "John Smith" by 2040.The problem is that if you try to have a rational discussion about the problem with illegal's in the US, it immediately turns you into a card carrying member of the KKK. Which is not correct. Race, ethnicity, culture, language, none of these things are the issue- the issue is laws, and breaking the law, is wrong. If I decided to not pay taxes for 5 years, and got caught, could I just say I did not have the money, so it is okay? No, I would be subject to the laws. What is interesting is the same people who knowingly break the law, use our laws to then justify staying in the US--"I have a child who was born here, he is a citizen, so you have to let me stay here now". Or, "Why did you ask me for my documents? I was not doing anything..." Umm, yes, you were...you broke the law knowingly to come here and stay here...Recently, a woman was asked for her documents, she is illegal, and she is currently fighting her extradition with the above justification...the INS official had no reason to ask her for her paperwork.. Aside from the fact that she is Hispanic, so now they are making it a "racial profiling" issue...They can ask me for my "papers" anytime...I won't mind a bit, if that will solve that issue. They are trying to make the US government out to be Nazi's if they want to check people's papers...as if that is not inflamatory rhetoric I don't know what is...
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:28 PM
 
385 posts, read 614,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12 View Post
I read that "Jose Garcia" will be a more common name in the US than "John Smith" by 2040.The problem is that if you try to have a rational discussion about the problem with illegal's in the US, it immediately turns you into a card carrying member of the KKK. Which is not correct. Race, ethnicity, culture, language, none of these things are the issue- the issue is laws, and breaking the law, is wrong. If I decided to not pay taxes for 5 years, and got caught, could I just say I did not have the money, so it is okay? No, I would be subject to the laws. What is interesting is the same people who knowingly break the law, use our laws to then justify staying in the US--"I have a child who was born here, he is a citizen, so you have to let me stay here now". Or, "Why did you ask me for my documents? I was not doing anything..." Umm, yes, you were...you broke the law knowingly to come here and stay here...Recently, a woman was asked for her documents, she is illegal, and she is currently fighting her extradition with the above justification...the INS official had no reason to ask her for her paperwork.. Aside from the fact that she is Hispanic, so now they are making it a "racial profiling" issue...They can ask me for my "papers" anytime...I won't mind a bit, if that will solve that issue. They are trying to make the US government out to be Nazi's if they want to check people's papers...as if that is not inflamatory rhetoric I don't know what is...
I dont see the problem with the majority of people's last name being Garcia, if they are American, and to have that happen, more than half would have to be born here. Kinda like how Washington is a 90 percent black name even though its suppose to be white?
Also why would I let myself be checked for papers when I go to the store? I dont even carry my wallet when I walk to the corner.
Its like giving up your freedom to be "safe" like the T.S.A., who by the way have never caught a terrorist, passengers have.
You say you wouldnt mind but if someone asked me for my papers I would be offended and I'm sure blacks would feel like if they were asked it would take them back to the day of having their walking papers on them at all times. Also I'm sure police will use this as an excuse to stop random people, brown cause they might be mexican and black cause they might be puerto rican.
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,954,111 times
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I'm not sure exactly why people keep insisting LEOs have the right to just randomly stop someone based on their appearance and "ask for their papers"................ they can only ask for verification of legal status if they have already been detained for reasonable cause of having committed a crime.

Why is this so difficult for some to understand?

Even if a LEO hears me speaking and realises (it's pretty obvious actually) that I'm not "American" that gives them zero right to ask me to show my green card (even though by law I'm required to carry it at all times - lord knows why as they're not empowered to ask for it at random).
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Afghanistan
159 posts, read 229,889 times
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They all should be rounded up. They are a drain on public services and tax dollars. The states such as WI would not be in the state they are in if there were not any illegals. Also, American workers wouldn't be fighting for their rights and benefits as they are now either.

Ship them all back even with their American babies. They can return once they are in their majority.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:26 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opyelie View Post
I'm not sure exactly why people keep insisting LEOs have the right to just randomly stop someone based on their appearance and "ask for their papers"................ they can only ask for verification of legal status if they have already been detained for reasonable cause of having committed a crime.

Why is this so difficult for some to understand?

Even if a LEO hears me speaking and realises (it's pretty obvious actually) that I'm not "American" that gives them zero right to ask me to show my green card (even though by law I'm required to carry it at all times - lord knows why as they're not empowered to ask for it at random).
You and I both know that is just pro-illegal propaganda. No one is stopped just because of their skin color or ethnicity. Once valid I.D. is presented during a lawful stop that is the end of the story. No proof of citizenship is required. Green card holders are already mandated to carry them with them.

Language usage or proficiency is not reason for suspicion either. But that is just pro-illegal propaganda also.

I'd like to add that I.D. should always be carried with you no matter who you are. If you have an accident or worse die, how will you be identified without it? I don't consider this a loss of my freedom to do that. It is just common sense.
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Old 02-23-2011, 02:03 PM
 
13,496 posts, read 13,983,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You and I both know that is just pro-illegal propaganda. No one is stopped just because of their skin color or ethnicity. Once valid I.D. is presented during a lawful stop that is the end of the story. No proof of citizenship is required. Green card holders are already mandated to carry them with them.

Language usage or proficiency is not reason for suspicion either. But that is just pro-illegal propaganda also.

I'd like to add that I.D. should always be carried with you no matter who you are. If you have an accident or worse die, how will you be identified without it? I don't consider this a loss of my freedom to do that. It is just common sense.

you can't really believe this can you? do you really think there has never been black people stopped by the police for no reason? we have good police as well as bad police, you get a bigoted policeman he will stop who ever he wants no matter what their color. all he needs to do is make up some flimsy excuse to do so. so yes people are stopped and questioned because of how they look.
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Old 02-23-2011, 02:20 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
you can't really believe this can you? do you really think there has never been black people stopped by the police for no reason? we have good police as well as bad police, you get a bigoted policeman he will stop who ever he wants no matter what their color. all he needs to do is make up some flimsy excuse to do so. so yes people are stopped and questioned because of how they look.
In general no, racial profiling is not happening. There are good cops and some bad cops but the majority follow the letter of the law. Should we throw out all laws because of "some" bad cops? I don't think so. They need to be weeded out and fired if they aren't executing their duties within the law but we still need to enforce our laws.
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Old 02-23-2011, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,611 posts, read 10,954,111 times
Reputation: 3083
Quote:
Originally Posted by hothulamaui View Post
you can't really believe this can you? do you really think there has never been black people stopped by the police for no reason? we have good police as well as bad police, you get a bigoted policeman he will stop who ever he wants no matter what their color. all he needs to do is make up some flimsy excuse to do so. so yes people are stopped and questioned because of how they look.
But, and this a BIG but you seem to be evading, not LEGALLY.

As chicagonut said there are good and bad in all fields and no law is going to stop a bad cop from profiling if that's what he wants to do, but should we then change all our laws to take into account the very small percentage of bad apples in LE ?
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:59 PM
 
13,496 posts, read 13,983,590 times
Reputation: 11120
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
In general no, racial profiling is not happening. There are good cops and some bad cops but the majority follow the letter of the law. Should we throw out all laws because of "some" bad cops? I don't think so. They need to be weeded out and fired if they aren't executing their duties within the law but we still need to enforce our laws.

I agree 100% that bad cops should not be on the job, but that doesn't mean that there are police who do not racial profile.
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