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Old 10-28-2007, 09:36 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veiled Prophet View Post
Very true but there are many people who go out of their way to try and make America look bad, even though in their own country they treat illegals much harsher than we ever did or would. We should follow Mexico's laws and punish harshly any illegal and then maybe they would respect us more.
Well, immigration laws in Mexico might be harsh, but nobody seems to enforce them, Mexico city is full of illegals, so is most of the country and nobody seems to care much about them, we don't have that illegal hysteria here, and actually in times of dire need Mexico has opened it's borders, we did it during Pinochet's regime and received thousands of Chilean immigrants, we did it during Spain's civil war and we received thousands of Spaniards fleeing as well, I guess nobody has cared to change immigration laws here because nobody enforces them.

So, I'd say, come to Mexico or come to Brazil, (my home is yours) (stay at will).

Immigration to Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by NewToCA; 10-28-2007 at 01:40 PM.. Reason: english please.
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Journey's End
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Perhaps on appearance, and after two years living in Brasil, it appears that the country is well integrated. My own experience differs widely. I worked with many Brasilians from '78 - '89, and although certainly they had representative backgrounds from: Poland, Germany, Japan, Chile, Colombia, and elsewhere, I found the class differences created acute stresses, and that 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation Europeans more often had privileges and access than what might be described as those "native to Brasil." I also found that the few Japanese-Brasilians I knew, and knew well, were not integrated with either the European-Brasilians or the again, so-called native Brasilians.

Each country has its problems and challenges, Brasil does not seem any different to me than the other countries struggling to assimilate incoming immigrants and does not on second, third or fifth blush seem more accepting than other countries either in SA, Europe or elsewhere.

Often it is culture and economics that interfere with successful blending, and those blends, like a dish cooked slowly on a low heat, take time to meld and become the delightful meal we are all looking forward to at dinner time.

My 2cents for immigration today!
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Well, immigration laws in Mexico might be harsh, but nobody seems to enforce them, Mexico city is full of illegals, so is most of the country and nobody seems to care much about them, we don't have that illegal hysteria here, and actually in times of dire need Mexico has opened it's borders, we did it during Pinochet's regime and received thousands of Chilean immigrants, we did it during Spain's civil war and we received thousands of Spaniards fleeing as well.

So, I'd say, come to Mexico or come to Brazil, (my home is yours) (stay at will)

Immigration to Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would say it's easier to let everyone "stay" when you have nothing of value to protect. When you're poor, even thieves can stay in your home because there's nothing to steal.

America used to be that way. Then we became rich and developed a high standard of living and fragile social welfare system that cannot become too overburdened if it's expected to survive.

So, that's why I say, "If you have the cash, come one come all, but if we're gonna have to pay, stay away!"

Last edited by NewToCA; 10-28-2007 at 01:41 PM..
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:46 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
I would say it's easier to let everyone "stay" when you have nothing of value to protect. When you're poor, even thieves can stay in your home because there's nothing to steal.

America used to be that way. Then we became rich and developed a high standard of living and fragile social welfare system that cannot become too overburdened if it's expected to survive.

So, that's why I say, "If you have the cash, come one come all, but if we're gonna have to pay, stay away!"
True, but Mexico's not poor, it might have poverty, but it's far away from being a poor country, the old regime's corruption created a lot of poverty and almost wiped out the middle class, but the future is a lot brighter now and that is attracting immigrants from all places of the world compared to 10 years ago where immigrants were much less, now we are flooded with north korean immigrants and businesses to give an example, but we have immigrants from all over the world, what is interesting is that most seem to adapt well and learn spanish and so far nobody's in panic, let's see what time does
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
True, but Mexico's not poor, it might have poverty, but it's far away from being a poor country, we became poor because of corruption on the government, but the future is a lot brighter now, that is attracting immigrants from all places of the world, and so far nobody's in panic, let's see what time does

But Mexico is VERY strict on immigration of the poor coming up through South of Mexico's border. Could it be that they perceive the same problems with those types of immigrants that America does?

After all, we let PLENTY of immigrants come to America the legal way. Indeed, we even fly in and "resettle" groups of refugees every now and then (Mung Chinese, Somalians, etc.).


Why the double standard that Mexicans should be allowed to work in the US after coming in illegally, but illegal Guatemalans trying to find work in Mexico are barred out and sent back?
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:52 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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well, there was a Mexican lady who got arrested for helping out migrants, but that caused such a ruckus in the country that she was freed, people were outraged. our comision de derechos humanos (human rights comission) made sure that it appeared in all the newspapers, people said that we have no right to ask any mercy from the united states government if we can't have it with illegal immigrants in this country, it was so shameful that the federal government had to intervene, I'm gonna look for news regarding that and transalate them.

are we that strict with immigration? then why Mexico's flooded with venezuelans, cubans brazilians and argentineans? specially it's major cities I haven't asked them their immigration status but i'm sure a lot aren't here legally, specially if the immigration laws are that strict

now the government is saying that they will develop a program so workers from south and central America can come to Mexico to work freely to the most southern states (specially Chiapas) if they want to come closer to the central or northern states they need to get an special permit though.
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post

now the government is saying that they will develop a program so workers can come to Mexico to work freely to the most southern states, if they want to come closer to the central or northern states they need to get an special permit though.

So if there is so much need in the Southern states of Mexico for laborers, why should the United States take in so many Mexican migrants from those same Southern States? Are they jobs that Mexicans "won't do?"

Is it a humanitarian gesture, or are these migrants simply cutting ahead of the line and trying to make a quick buck in America vs. staying at home? And if they're just trying to cut in line, aren't Americans thus justified in their resistance to these law breakers?
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:02 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
So if there is so much need in the Southern states of Mexico for laborers, why should the United States take in so many Mexican migrants from those same Southern States? Are they jobs that Mexicans "won't do?"

Is it a humanitarian gesture, or are these migrants simply cutting ahead of the line and trying to make a quick buck in America vs. staying at home? And if they're just trying to cut in line, aren't Americans thus justified in their resistance to these law breakers?
I have no right answer on this, my best guess is that humans migrate, I don't know what makes us do it, but it's part of human history.

I also guess that if most Mexicans migrate to the USA, specially in those southern underdeveloped states, that there is an important lack of field workers there, imho instead of criminalizing them is better to regulate a natural human phenomenon that has existed for ages and make it legal, everybody would win that way

it's like the war on drugs, just impossible to win, it would be like criminalizing humans for having sex or for eating food.

I'm a migrant myself, because of my work I have to spend months abroad, the only difference is that I can do it legally, this makes me feel bad about those who can't and think that it is unfair
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:08 AM
 
17,279 posts, read 24,961,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
I have no right answer on this, my best guess is that humans migrate, I don't know what makes us do it, but it's part of human history.

I also guess that if most Mexicans migrate to the USA, specially in those southern underdeveloped states, that there is an important lack of field workers there, imho instead of criminalizing them is better to regulate a natural human phenomenon that has existed for ages and make it legal, everybody would win that way

it's like the war on drugs, just impossible to win, it would be like criminalizing humans for having sex or for eating food.
But that's the problem. American immigration laws are DESIGNED to "regulate" this human phenomena of immigration, and that is EXACTLY what Americans are calling for.

Immigration laws do all of the following:

1) Serve a "screening" function to keep criminals out
2) Serve to keep diseased out
3) Serve to keep those who would burden the social welfare system out, and
4) Serve to protect jobs and wages so that the United States does not turn into a crappy Central American country.

Like it or not, nation-states are "houses" of its citizenry. Just as you have a right to decide who gets to come into your personal home, so do nations get to decide who it wants within ITS borders. THAT is human nature.
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:19 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
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Dear TriMT7.

I can tell you that I enjoyed this debate very much, I still think that the world is wrong, not just one country but everyone because of these policies, I might be a loony, but who knows maybe the next generations will think that people should be allowed to go everywhere they want, only time will tell, but the internet age is making possible things that 30 years ago we wouldn't think about.

and well that's it I don't have anything else to say, except that I hope this problem can be solved the right way, maybe the right way is what you said, maybe is what I said, maybe it's a mixture or both, or maybe is a solution we haven't even thought about yet.

Respect!
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