Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have two conflicting elements in my value and belief system and that is why I am often conflicted and unsettled about immigration issues.
First and most deeply I believe in human "brother and sisterhood" and the unity of the universe. I know that boundaries are artificial and even from an airplane let alone from outerspace, our small blue spacecraft has no national boundaries. That most wars and conflicts, famine and misery come from defending artificial borders. I believe that it is incumbent upon us to find ways to share and to live together and to protect our planet earth.
The conflicting values and beliefs, have to do to with emmense pride and love for the American experiment in democracy. I really love the idea of America! I also, for what ever reason, am deeply law abiding; I therefore want to uphold America as a special promise of political and social freedom and I want to offer it to those who apply to immigrate here, but don't like the feeling that others will break our laws and trash our enviornment and claim the benefits. Those feelings cause me to want to protect the borders from illegal immigration (and to ensure that we have a change in Washington that will protect our Constitution and values).
In the conflict, when all is said and done, I come down soundly on the side of comprehensive immigration reform to make sure our policies are congruent with our values and ideals and the promise of the Lady with the Lamp, and protect our security.
Last edited by elston; 01-26-2008 at 11:23 AM..
Reason: added in security consideration of open boarders
Being a fact that each one of us have different views about this topic, it'd be interesting to know why we think like we do.
In my case they come from what I do, and the experiences that have came out of that, thanks to my job I can travel around and work in different countries (legally) with few restrictions, all my colleguages come from different countries some of mine as well, we get to know each other by the internet, forums and because we meet at the parties in different places around the world, most of us stay long periods of times in foreign countries, so interesting things happen, we get to make friends from other cultures and learn foreign languages, some of my friends have fallen in love with people from other countries and they either decided to make those countries their base or they have took their spouses to their home country.
some countries make huge electronic music festivals that attract people from all around the world, specially in those countries that have less restrictive immigration policies (they don't require tourist visas or hand them out easily, etc) and a lot of these people likes to travel and follow the parties or their favorite dj's, most of these people are young individuals, but you get to see older people up to their sixties in these parties and most share the concept of a global culture.
it is a weird job and a hard one, because sometimes you have to be far from your friends, your spouse, your family and your homeland for really long periods, but it has the advantage that you get to know the world and you get to make new friends, it is really high tech because we use advanced music and sound synthesis technology to create our tracks, and we usually follow the market we go to the countries that have the most parties and we get paid in the currencies that have the most value, it used to be the dollar before, now it is the euro, but the Brazilian real is being an option now because of the inmense party activity that Brazil has and because it's currency is becoming really strong.
the reason we can work legally in most countries without much problems is because we are backed up by international labels who release music on a regular basis, it used to be released on vinyl and cd's but now sites such as http://www.beatport.com have created a revolution, thanks to this party promoters get interested, they contact our booking agents and when the deal is closed they hire their immigration lawyers to tramit an artist visa.
well that's what motivates my views in immigration, what motivates yours?
respect!
There are several reasons, but above all, just tack on "lack of..." to the bolded word above, and you have my answer.
As we know, recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.
Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let’s say I break into your house. Let’s say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, “I’ve made all the beds, washed the dishes, did the laundry and swept the floors. I’ve done all the things you don’t like to do. I’m hard-working and honest, expect for when I broke into your house.”
According to the protesters:
You are required to let me stay in your house.
You are required to add me to your family's insurance plan.
You are required to educate my kids.
You are required to provide other benefits to me & to my family.
My husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part.
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.
It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.
And what a deal it is for me!!!
I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.
Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE (or hire someone that knows my language) so you can communicate with me!!!
I have two conflicting elements in my value and belief system and that is why I am often conflicted and unsettled about immigration issues.
First and most deeply I believe in human "brother and sisterhood" and the unity of the universe. I know that boundaries are artificial and even from an airplane let alone from outerspace, our small blue spacecraft has no national boundaries. That most wars and conflicts, famine and misery come from defending artificial borders. I believe that it is incumbent upon us to find ways to share and to live together and to protect our planet earth.
I've never understood this "reasoning." Boundaries do not need to be visible to be real. There is nothing artificial about my property line. It's my property. I paid for it. I own it. When the wind blew over a portion of my fence, my property boundary did not become artificial.
Quote:
The conflicting values and beliefs, have to do to with emmense pride and love for the American experiment in democracy. I really love the idea of America! I also, for what ever reason, am deeply law abiding; I therefore want to uphold America as a special promise of political and social freedom and I want to offer it to those who apply to immigrate here, but don't like the feeling that others will break our laws and trash our enviornment and claim the benefits. Those feelings cause me to want to protect the borders from illegal immigration (and to ensure that we have a change in Washington that will protect our Constitution and values).
I agree with you here, and I want you to take special notice of the word I have emphasized: Democracy.
Democracy is self-rule. The "self" in self-rule is defined using the principle of sovereignty. That is; boundaries are laid out to determine who belongs to the group "self." A resident of Mississippi cannot vote in Seattle mayoral elections because the "self" for such elections does not extend to residents of Mississippi.
As you state, our system is one of law. This is what our democracy boils down to, which is described as a democratic rebublic. When this system of law is systemically broken, our democratic basis for government ceases to exist. This is what we see with illegal immigration.
Quote:
In the conflict, when all is said and done, I come down soundly on the side of comprehensive immigration reform to make sure our policies are congruent with our values and ideals and the promise of the Lady with the Lamp.
The Statue of Liberty is irrelevant. It's a statue. It has noting to do with democracy, government or law.
When you say "comprehensive immigration reform," do you mean amnesty?
As we know, recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.
Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.
Let’s say I break into your house. Let’s say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, “I’ve made all the beds, washed the dishes, did the laundry and swept the floors. I’ve done all the things you don’t like to do. I’m hard-working and honest, expect for when I broke into your house.”
According to the protesters:
You are required to let me stay in your house.
You are required to add me to your family's insurance plan.
You are required to educate my kids.
You are required to provide other benefits to me & to my family.
My husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part.
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.
It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house.
And what a deal it is for me!!!
I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior.
Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE (or hire someone that knows my language) so you can communicate with me!!!
This is, of course, an apt and rational analogy. Many have presented this analogy, but predictably, I've never ever seen any rebuttal from a pro-illegal.
I have met those, and I am one of them, who are in favor of comprehensive immigration reform to address the issues and to end illegal immigration thru border control and a policy that balances our economies need for labor and the aspirations of those who would immigrate.
The anti immigrant crowd perpetuate the problem and keep the problem alive for their own purposes--fund raising for minute men, demogogery and votes by folks like Hunter, Tancredo and Bilbray, and pure hatred and racism by so many of those who rally around the anti-immigrant cause. Don't tell me its just illegal, most of the pickets and demonstrators, target and harass all latinos; their immigration status doesn't matter.
This is, of course, an apt and rational analogy. Many have presented this analogy, but predictably, I've never ever seen any rebuttal from a pro-illegal.
Pro illegals have no rebuttal short of trotting out the 'race card'.
To which I throw back at 'em: the indigenous people here in what is not the New World simply got defeated by a bigger, badder group of 'Indians'----who were slightly different genetically.
Yet; when the Navajo arrived here ca. AD 1000 and ran off the earlier Indians; I do not hear 'boo' from La Raza/MEChA, etc. demanding that the Navajo be tossed out.
The past cannot be undone so to quote Charles Darwin: adapt or die!
Right now 'WASP' culture is still much stronger than New World 'Hispanic' culture.......if I were Mexico, etc; I would shut up and improve my own countries.
I have met those, and I am one of them, who are in favor of comprehensive immigration reform to address the issues and to end illegal immigration thru border control and a policy that balances our economies need for labor and the aspirations of those who would immigrate.
The anti immigrant crowd perpetuate the problem and keep the problem alive for their own purposes--fund raising for minute men, demogogery and votes by folks like Hunter, Tancredo and Bilbray, and pure hatred and racism by so many of those who rally around the anti-immigrant cause. Don't tell me its just illegal, most of the pickets and demonstrators, target and harass all latinos; their immigration status doesn't matter.
Some people prefer to live in a fantasy and don't look at the facts.
Mexico sold parts to the USA. In other words they sold themselves out. Others parts were won very easily
Look at article: Ethnic Terms (http://epcc.edu/nwlibrary/borderlands/17_ethnic_terms.htm - broken link)
The article proves with facts. The word mutts tend to hurt some people's feelings, but is not such a bad word. Bastards is, mutts is not. It is a word widely used for people (slang)even by those that have only one parent of different origin. Some refuse to call themselves mutts only because they think they are above the others, but in the end they are indeed mutts. All others in america have accepted that we are americans first, except those that consistently think they are somehowbetter and different or disadvantaged and have a better way to show us.
American culture is immitated by many through out the world, but at the same time it is always critisized. Americans have the balls to take an initiative and move forwards, while many countries just watch and follow.
Mexico is no doubt full of hate, wanting us to accept their problems and speak their language while they want americans there to speak spanish. Moreover, recently many americans have been attacked in Mexico just because they are americans. Mexico treats its own illegal aliens from central america like crap compared with the USA. Mexicans send back billions of dollars back to their country and they should just shut up! Mexico blames others for its pathetic condition. PURE HYPOCRACY!
Mexico even has a "Dia de la Raza", day of the race to feed the uneducated BS and propaganda thinking they can claim other lost lands.
These are pure facts that can NOT be disputed.
THE PROBLEM IS WITH MEXICO ITSELF AND THEY NEED TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER FIRST BEFORE THE CRITISIZE OTHERS.
more on mutts:
Mutts will be mutts, its genetics and can't be changed.
Mutts can be found throughout the world.
Some mutts have a superiority complex, but again indeed they are nothing but mutts. They wont even look at the fact that thats what they really are and find some way to associate some culture that existed here first with that superiority. They won't recognize other mutts because they are "better" mutts, but in the meantime they behave and imitate and live just like the other mutts. Some mutts even try to bite the hand that feeds them.
Some mutts just speak a different language and are just too set in their ways to learn something new, while others adapt and move forward. .. After all, you can't teach an old mutt new tricks.
It is a mutt's world but they can't see it for what it is, but rather they claim special distinction Sort of the like super hybrid mutt bred for special purposes of which it really knows nothing about but thinks it does because propaganda and hate told it so.
"Its a mutt's world after all"
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
