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Old 01-26-2008, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Here
10,833 posts, read 11,566,701 times
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What motivates my view? Paying an obscene amount in taxes every year and seeing statistics on how much money goes into the pockets of illegals (throught welfare/aid/healthcare/education/etc). This makes me want to puke. Sure our tax money pays for other things I disagree with but to me it seems this is something we can put a stop to if we wanted to.
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Old 01-26-2008, 12:20 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,136 posts, read 21,125,167 times
Reputation: 23163
My views are motivated by information I did not go looking for but became aware of through my job.

(1) I was substituting in a public vehicle and we pulled up to a very nice house that had an artificial Christmas tree fully decorated waiting for the trash. I commented that that was very wasteful and they should have given it away if they did not want it. The reply from the person I was working with is that they could afford to do this because they were not paying any taxes, they got their home free and we were paying for them to live here although they were not citizens.

(2) I worked in a public place where the Mexicans, I have no way of knowing if they were illegal, brought their children in and just let them run wild. The place I worked hired a person who made more then any of us because she spoke Spanish. We were given Spanish lessons by that person whose job was to originally take care of the Latino population. When I go to that public building now, there are signs all over the place in Spanish. Many more signs than the English signs. Employees have been intimidated into learning Spanish whether they wanted to or not and have been threatened with being fired if they say anything about it. These are people whose ancestors were here when this country began. Evidently the Mexicans are much more important than established American families. I had a Latino person aproach me and demand to know where the Spanish speaking person was. He was really aggressive and rude. I am so glad to be retired and not have to put up with this stuff anymore. It shouldn't be happening. I will be voting in the next election. I may be running for office in the next election. Things need to change.
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Old 01-26-2008, 12:26 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,059,856 times
Reputation: 2049
Elston,

I took your post #31 seriously, and I gave you a reasoned response. I'm disappointed that in post #36, you showed your true colors.
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Old 01-26-2008, 01:08 PM
 
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
11,215 posts, read 7,604,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
This is, of course, an apt and rational analogy. Many have presented this analogy, but predictably, I've never ever seen any rebuttal from a pro-illegal.
That's because propaganda and hate has tought them that the US is their land to begin with

* but look in my past post to see who "they" really are/ The people that inhabited these lands to begin with are long gone.
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Old 01-26-2008, 02:43 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Taxes, culture, and the fact that massive migration of people out of Mexico is not really doing Mexico any good at all -- in fact it only makes the problem much worse.

Massive migration of people results from instability and social injustice (in Mexico - not the USA) and it only results in more instability. That's why every year more people die trying to leave that wealthy nation of Mexico, and the violence is fast becoming very serious.
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Old 01-26-2008, 02:46 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elston View Post
I have two conflicting elements in my value and belief system and that is why I am often conflicted and unsettled about immigration issues.

First and most deeply I believe in human "brother and sisterhood" and the unity of the universe. I know that boundaries are artificial and even from an airplane let alone from outerspace, our small blue spacecraft has no national boundaries. That most wars and conflicts, famine and misery come from defending artificial borders. I believe that it is incumbent upon us to find ways to share and to live together and to protect our planet earth.

The conflicting values and beliefs, have to do to with emmense pride and love for the American experiment in democracy. I really love the idea of America! I also, for what ever reason, am deeply law abiding; I therefore want to uphold America as a special promise of political and social freedom and I want to offer it to those who apply to immigrate here, but don't like the feeling that others will break our laws and trash our enviornment and claim the benefits. Those feelings cause me to want to protect the borders from illegal immigration (and to ensure that we have a change in Washington that will protect our Constitution and values).

In the conflict, when all is said and done, I come down soundly on the side of comprehensive immigration reform to make sure our policies are congruent with our values and ideals and the promise of the Lady with the Lamp, and protect our security.

Boundaries are not at all artificial. Look at the animal world -- animals are territorial. Humans have been territorial since day one.

Boundaries are completely natural. The world has always been comprised of different cultures and countries ever since there were enough people to have them.
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Old 01-26-2008, 02:51 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elston View Post
I dont think I have ever met a "pro-illegal".

I have met those, and I am one of them, who are in favor of comprehensive immigration reform to address the issues and to end illegal immigration thru border control and a policy that balances our economies need for labor and the aspirations of those who would immigrate.

The anti immigrant crowd perpetuate the problem and keep the problem alive for their own purposes--fund raising for minute men, demogogery and votes by folks like Hunter, Tancredo and Bilbray, and pure hatred and racism by so many of those who rally around the anti-immigrant cause. Don't tell me its just illegal, most of the pickets and demonstrators, target and harass all latinos; their immigration status doesn't matter.
Then you never met a corporate CEO who wants to enhance profits by bringing in truckloads of cheap illegal labor to keep labor costs way down.

And you never met some elitist yuppies who did not want to pay decent wages for their landscaping or live-in nannies so wanted an unlimited pool of dirt cheap servants that don't expect legal wages, overtime pay or employee benefits.

Pro-illegals are all about privatizing the profits, socializing the costs. If the employers don't wish to provide decent wages or health insurance benefits then it's because they expect the taxpayers to subsidize their cheap labor.

And the Mexican elite is extremely pro-illegal because their two-tiered caste society has found itself with a large excess of servants/serfs.
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Old 01-26-2008, 03:23 PM
 
1,266 posts, read 2,223,114 times
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Logic and the rule of law. Gee, now isn't that simple????
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Old 01-26-2008, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildWestDude View Post
That's because propaganda and hate has tought them that the US is their land to begin with

* but look in my past post to see who "they" really are/ The people that inhabited these lands to begin with are long gone.
Using Mexico as our guinea pig: the only time that Mx had legal dominion over our Southwest was from 1821-1848 (1836 for Texas).

Many people; especially Mexicans seem to forget that they 'stole' the land from the Aztecs, etc. and too had Mexico lost its war of independence against Spain back in 1821------quite a few of the former would either have been executed or fled to the USA.

And too; most of the residents of our Southwest elected to accept American rule over fleeing to what was left of Mexico.

One last point: Guatemala, etc. were also part of post 1821 Mexico yet I hear little or no mention of the 'reconquistas' wanting any part of Central America.

It is as if the Mexicans desire our built First World infrastructure yet are not willing to apply the Rule of Law to present day SOB.
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Old 01-26-2008, 04:02 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,294,821 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Boundaries are not at all artificial. Look at the animal world -- animals are territorial. Humans have been territorial since day one.

Boundaries are completely natural. The world has always been comprised of different cultures and countries ever since there were enough people to have them.
Dear Malamute while it is true that humans are territorial and that animals are territorial malamute, we can do better, because we aren't animals.

imho it is lower human nature, or ego what makes us territorial, but what bout our higher human nature, the soul? if we acted, thought and spoke more with the soul and less with the ego, this world would be a much better place

Last edited by Travelling fella; 01-26-2008 at 04:10 PM..
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