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Old 04-11-2013, 03:09 PM
 
31,543 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8401

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
Celebrating St. Patricks Day is recognizing past heritage and culture, the same way speaking spanish is.

That statement is ridiculous. the concept of a "fair" wage is subjective. What do you consider a fair wage? What the market demands, or what people think they are entitled to? Many Americans would rather continue living in public housing on unemployment because the only jobs they are skilled for are minimum wage jobs that don't pay what they think they're entitle to. There's a false sense of entitlement in this country.

You don't understand how glad I am that you recognize American employers are at fault here too. However, I disagree about the equally guilty part. Illegal immigrants come to this country because they know they can find work, if they knew no one would hire them, they wouldn't come. We basically entice them to come, and then we get angry once they get here. The solution is simple, crack down on dirty employers and we crack down on illegal immigration without wasting billions of dollars in the process.
So those of Mexican ancestry celebrate Cinco de Mayo in this country also. What has that to do with language usage again? It is one day. What we are talking about is constantly choosing Spanish over English out in mainstream when one knows English. We have a certain standard of living in this country. Many of those jobs like construction used to pay a drywaller $15.00 or more an hour but with illegal immigrants here those wages have dropped way down. Why should Americans have to compete with illegal immigrants for jobs while the employer gets his cheap, slave labor to increase his profits? You complain about these employers/corporations and yet turn right around and defend their desire for this cheap labor and the cheap, illegal labor also. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Some of these jobs are entry level jobs for our youth and less educated Americans. False sense of entitlement? You must be talking about the illegals not Americans. Americans are "entitled" to work in this country, not illegals.

I see, so as an analogy only the bank robber (employer) is guilty but not the one driving the get-a-way car (illegal immigrants)? Who is this "we"? Please don't include Americans for the rule of law along with these greedy employers. "We" didn't invite them. It isn't a waste of money to crack down on illegal immigrants. They are costing us dearly in so many ways.

 
Old 04-11-2013, 03:14 PM
 
852 posts, read 810,739 times
Reputation: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Illegal Aliens in Los Angeles County Cost Taxpayers 3 Billion Dollars Annually | An Angeleno's View of the World

Most Illegal Immigrant Families Collect Welfare | Judicial Watch

Illegal Immigrant Births - At Your Expense - CBS News

These are just the tip of the iceberg. This doesn't even account for the huge number of dollars they send out of our country as remittances to their homelands.

There is no reason to priortize our deporatations. Illegal immigrants are costing this country dearly whether they are felons or not. You can harp about corporations all you want. As I said we need to go after all cheaters in this country and going after illegal immigrants are among the biggest cheaters.

DHS confirms cheaper to deport every illegal alien than allowing them to stay - National Immigration Reform | Examiner.com

Did you miss the part where I said there are unlimited visas for legal, foreign farm workers? But some or many of the growers/farmers choose illegal immigrants instead because it increases their profits. You keep crying about the greedy employers/corporations and yet you turn around and defend them for hiring illegal immigrants instead of Americans just because they work cheaper and that increases their profits. Kind of a hypocritical stance to take, isn't it?

I have never known an American construction worker who made $100,000 a year. Who do you think you are kidding?

Every anti-illlegal immigrationist in this forum and outside of this forum wants these greedy employers cracked down on by using e-verify and fined and jailed also. It isn't always easy to prove that they "knowingly" hired illegal immigrants because the illegals produce such authentic looking fake or stolen ID. Many times it is the personnel dept. (many of whom share ethnic ties with them) who knowingly hired them not the employer himself. But that doesn't change the fact that illegal immigrants are just as guilty. It is simply a myth that prices would go up much due to the exit of illegal immigrants from our country. The employers are merely pocketing the profits. I would rather our country return to the rule of law anyway and see Americans put back to work than to worry about prices going up a bit. The social costs we wouldn't be putting out for these illegals would probably increase our incomes due to less taxes.

I guess you all for forgiving their felony ID thefts also? This whole amnesty fiasco would cost us billions in tax dollars to implement. If they were deported instead American would be holding their jobs and they in turn would be contributing to our economy and paying taxes.
All your links have already been disproved as largely myths on the website I linked you to, so I'm not going to bother going through each one of them. Thanks for playing, though. It was interesting to see what sources you were using, it gives me an insight as to why people on this board are the way they are.

You obviously know very little about the economy of our country, since you keep going on and on about how much illegal immigrants are costing us. It's painful for me to listen to your babble because you clearly have no idea what sucks away most of our tax dollars down the drain. Hint, illegal immigrants are not even in the top ten most hurtful things to our economy, in fact, in the grand scheme of the economy, illegals are but a little papercut to us. I'll give you a hint at what is at the very top of our problems, though, take a look at your detailed bill the next you're in the hospital.

I've never defended illegal immigrants. I've just rallied against the delusional Americans that think illegal immigrants are the cause of all problems. That doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for them, my parents came to this country (albiet legally, though) in the search of a better life, much the same way illegals do. That's why I don't mind those who's only crime is to be illegal, and have been paying taxes and not being a burden on our welfare system, to become legal. No, that does not mean I'm for forgiving ID theft or any other serious crime.
 
Old 04-11-2013, 03:15 PM
 
31,543 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
That a completely bogus analogy.

I never said wanting immigrants to assimilate is racist, I said wanting a ban on speaking spanish or remembering my roots only in private away from public eyes is racist.

By speaking spanish with fellow spanish speakers, I'm not hurting or disrespecting anyone. By saying I'm American born, but I'll always remember my roots does not meen I'm not assimilated. I don't have a problem with hasidic jews dressing the way they do, or with Christians wearing their crosses in public and preaching in public, or with the Irish holding a parade to celebrate their heritage once a year, with African American remembering what they fought for and having federal holidays, or with southerners publicly yearning for the old days of the south. Etc., etc. That why it baffles me that you would sugest that me speaking spanish is somehow disrespectful.
It isn't just about Spanish speakers though. So what race are you referring to? IMO, it is rude and disrespectful (although not unlawful) to not speak English in public when possible regardless if your native language is Spanish, Italian, Polish, etc. Please stick to the language issue, will you?
 
Old 04-11-2013, 03:28 PM
 
31,543 posts, read 14,580,770 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
All your links have already been disproved as largely myths on the website I linked you to, so I'm not going to bother going through each one of them. Thanks for playing, though. It was interesting to see what sources you were using, it gives me an insight as to why people on this board are the way they are.

You obviously know very little about the economy of our country, since you keep going on and on about how much illegal immigrants are costing us. It's painful for me to listen to your babble because you clearly have no idea what sucks away most of our tax dollars down the drain. Hint, illegal immigrants are not even in the top ten most hurtful things to our economy, in fact, in the grand scheme of the economy, illegals are but a little papercut to us. I'll give you a hint at what is at the very top of our problems, though, take a look at your detailed bill the next you're in the hospital.

I've never defended illegal immigrants. I've just rallied against the delusional Americans that think illegal immigrants are the cause of all problems. That doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for them, my parents came to this country (albiet legally, though) in the search of a better life, much the same way illegals do. That's why I don't mind those who's only crime is to be illegal, and have been paying taxes and not being a burden on our welfare system, to become legal. No, that does not mean I'm for forgiving ID theft or any other serious crime.
No one has said that illegal immigrants are the cause of ALL of our problems. You are just putting words in people's mouths now. Illegal immigration however is a big part of the problems we have in this country today whether you want to admit it or not. Not in the top 10? Yes, I have looked at the last hospital bill I received and I know it is very high because of the non-payers and that would include illegal immigrants. We don't need to add uninsured illegal immigrants to that problem not to mention the overcroweded ER's to serve them.

Of course my links don't agree with your beliefs so you won't accept them and no they haven't been debunked. I am 65 years old . I know all about our economy and this country, kiddo.
Yeah, thanks for playing. So long. I have no further need to discuss anything with you nor will I be able to read anymore of your .... (well let's just leave it at that, shall we?)
 
Old 04-11-2013, 03:36 PM
 
852 posts, read 810,739 times
Reputation: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
So those of Mexican ancestry celebrate Cinco de Mayo in this country also. What has that to do with language usage again? It is one day. What we are talking about is constantly choosing Spanish over English out in mainstream when one knows English.

We have a certain standard of living in this country. Many of those jobs like construction used to pay a drywaller $15.00 or more an hour but with illegal immigrants here those wages have dropped way down. Why should Americans have to compete with illegal immigrants for jobs while the employer gets his cheap, slave labor to increase his profits? You complain about these employers/corporations and yet turn right around and defend their desire for this cheap labor and the cheap, illegal labor also. Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Some of these jobs are entry level jobs for our youth and less educated Americans. False sense of entitlement? You must be talking about the illegals not Americans. Americans are "entitled" to work in this country, not illegals.

I see, so as an analogy only the bank robber (employer) is guilty but not the one driving the get-a-way car (illegal immigrants)? Who is this "we"? Please don't include Americans for the rule of law along with these greedy employers. "We" didn't invite them. It isn't a waste of money to crack down on illegal immigrants. They are costing us dearly in so many ways.
No, we're not talking about constantly choosing spanish over english, we're talking about my right, and the right of my fellow hispanic americans to speak spanish where ever we are, when ever we want. Another poster in this thread basically said I should never speak spanish in public and that I should keep any evidence of my hispanic culture confined to my house, less I risk offending his delicate sensibilities. I have already stated many times in this thread, that while I understand why many 1st generation speak only spanish, I also think that they should do a better job of assimilating the english language. But that doesn't apply to 2nd generation Hispanic Americans because we all know english. No one has the right to tell me what I can or can not do in my own country when I'm not breaking any laws.

I have never defended companies taking an illegal immigrant instead of American. All I said is that they are the reason why we have illegal immigrants in the first. I want to crack down on illegal immigration too, but I'm not blind to problems we ourselves create that bring illegal immigrants here in the first place. Like any human being, I'm sympathetic to the plight of others, so I'm not against amnesty for the hard working illegals that are already here, so long as we fix the problem that keeps causing more of them to come over.

All American are entitled to work in this country, regardless of age, gender and race, but not all Americans are entitled to "fair" wage. The wage should be what the market dictates as long as it's above the minimum wage. McDonald workers and their unions want a $15 wage for flipping burgers. Thats the best example of American entitlement in the past month. And there's many more.

Your analogy makes no sense whatsoever.

Deporting illegals is not going to solve our problems. It's just a waste of our taxes. For every 100 we deport, another 101 will cross right back. the only way to stop them is change the root of the problem: US. We are all responsible, greedy employers exists because we let them exist, because we're trying cure cancer (illegal immigration) with a band-aid.
 
Old 04-11-2013, 04:01 PM
 
852 posts, read 810,739 times
Reputation: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
No one has said that illegal immigrants are the cause of ALL of our problems. You are just putting words in people's mouths now. Illegal immigration however is a big part of the problems we have in this country today whether you want to admit it or not. Not in the top 10?

Yes, I have looked at the last hospital bill I received and I know it is very high because of the non-payers and that would include illegal immigrants. We don't need to add uninsured illegal immigrants to that problem not to mention the overcroweded ER's to serve them.

Of course my links don't agree with your beliefs so you won't accept them and no they haven't been debunked. I am 65 years old . I know all about our economy and this country, kiddo.
Yeah, thanks for playing. So long. I have no further need to discuss anything with you nor will I be able to read anymore of your .... (well let's just leave it at that, shall we?)
No, no-one's directly come out and said illegal immigrants are the cause of all problems, but your attitudes say it for you.

I was waiting for you to say this so that I can tell you how wrong you are. Uninsured americans and illegals are not the cause for our high hospital bills. It's the health care market having a hold on congress and operating as though health care was a free market (which it's not.) Do you know why we spend so much on Medicaid and Medicare? It's because the health care industry lobbies congress to force Medicare and Medicaid to pay more then private insurance. A wheel chair bought by Medicare or Medicaid cost twice as much as one bought by a private insurance company, and that's just the beginning of it. Everything hospitals buy, from medicine, to latex gloves, are ridiculously overpriced because thats the way the healthcare industry wants it, since they know insurance companies have to pay for it. However, walk into a pharmacy where you're the one doing the paying and not the insurance companies, and everything is a lot cheaper. $5 dollar pharmacy gauze will cost you hundreds of dollars at a hospital. The healthcare industry churns billions and billions of dollars of PROFITS every single year, very little of that profit goes to doctors, most of it goes to private investors. Illegal immigrants and and uninsured americans are no burden on the health care industry, and are not the cause of our high hospital bills. I've only touched on the tip of the iceburg. Do your own research rather than relying on the mainstream media.

Age does not equate to knowledge. Despite being 65, you don't seem to know anything about government spending. But I don't blame you, the interent is modern phenomenon, so you've probably relied on the American media for most of your information growing up. I'm sorry if I offended you in any of my comments, that was not my intention.
 
Old 04-11-2013, 05:48 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,712,641 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
We have limited resources and funding for ICE, they should focus all their energy into deporting the more dangerous criminals first. In a perfect world, we would have the resources to follow the tip every nosy busy sends in. Sadly the world isn't perfect. If taxation is your main gripe with illegals, then you should be fine with the illegals who pay taxes. Did you know illegal immigrants payed 11.2 billion dollars in taxes in 2011, while GE, a very profitable, multibillion dollar corporation payed ZERO taxes that same year. Where's your outrage at that, as far as taxes goes, corporations like GE are a bigger threat to our "livelyhood." If jobs are your main issue with illegals, then your problem should be with other Americans and employers, because a lot of the jobs illegals take are jobs American citizens wouldn't touch with a ten foot poll. Did you know despite a high unemployment rate in the state, many Californian farms are facing a shortage of workers this year? You know why? Because ever since they started cracking down more on illegal farm workers, there aren't enough people willing to work from morning to dusk in the hot sun for minimum wage. You should be angry at your fellow Americans who would rather be unemployed than "demean" themselves by taking the jobs many illegals currently occupy. You should be angry at American employers who instead of paying an American worker more, would rather pay close to nothing under the table to an illegal. And you should be angry at yourself for buying cheap fruit from California and supporting this practice.
Shouldn't the more dangerous criminals be in jail instead of being deported, since if they are deported they have the ability to return because the country they are deported to will not jail them for crimes committed here.

Illegals don't make enough to pay taxes at the Federal level and usually get back more than has been withheld from any paycheck they may have received. What tax they pay at the local level isn't enough to cover their usage of public services.

Not ThinkProgress for your claim of illegals having paid $11.2B in taxes who in turn gets there info from a Progressive think tank that fails to also include the services they use. The report also claims citizens in with the claims as families with 1 illegal in it.
Quote:
The ITEP methodology relies on three pieces of data: 1) an estimate of each state’s unauthorized population; 2) the average family income for unauthorized immigrants; and 3) state-specific tax payments.
Where is the showing of illegals getting back $4.2B in tax credit (2010). The projection was $7.4B last year (2011). So that 11.2B starts to diminish real quick now. How about the costs of education in Primary schools, why wasn't that figured into the equation. Now we start to see there is no real benefit to them being here as they now begin to cost us money. How about the -.1% to GDP they cost us, that's $14B that we lose due to them.

What does GE have to do with this? The truth about GE's tax bill - Fortune Features

Did you know there is an unlimited number of H2A visas that can be used, that simply don't get used by farmers. Do you know why? Did you know that farmers have changed there business models to less labor intensive crops and have mechanized. Did you know CA farmers claim that very claim year after year after year, yet they themselves don't use the H2A which if they did use it they wouldn't be able to whine about not having the laborers they claim they need.

Did you know that if an illegal submits a SS card and DL, fake or not, the business must accept those documents or be subject to a lawsuit for discrimination? Did you know that the employer must knowingly hire an illegal in order to be subject to penalty.

Cheap fruit from CA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
Actually, most illegals are technically Americans since most come from the Americas. Semantics aside, no I don't believe illegals are "Americans," but that doesn't mean I don't recognize a lot of the problems with the immigration system in this country, or that many unemployed Americans consider themselves above certain jobs, or the dirty practices of many American employers.

Just because illegals aren't Americans doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated with respect, and thats where you and I, and the rest of the members on this board, differ. You all turn a blind eye to the problems we have and blame in all on the illegals. I don't know whether it's because of ignorance or racism, and I'm not sure which one is worse.
Ignorance is espousing Progressive propaganda and rhetoric as you have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
Show me your many stats because I assume most of them will be refuted right here: Factcheck.org

I never said two wrongs make a right. I'm saying we prioritize. I think holding free loading corporations at account is more important then going after every single free loading illegal immigrant.

My example about farm workers are just that, an example. Yes, farm workers are a small part of illegal immigrants, but they account for over 50 percent of farm workers in the US, some estimates even say illegals account for 80% of agricultural field workers. You would have to be ignorant to say that deporting all illegals is not going to drastically change that industry. Secondly, illegal immigrants, besides taking jobs normal americans wouldn't also take jobs for a lot less and without overtime. The construction industry is a great example of that, doing the same job and american would do for a 100,000 a year, and illegal will do for 25,000. Why? Because we all allow corporations to do that by not regulating and by choosing to do business with them. Anyone who uses anything that is a result of cheap American labor is a hypocrite.

The solution is simple, crack down on dirty American employers who rather hire an illegal to save money than American, and you reduce the draw for illegal immigrants. Thats the most cost effective way of dealing with illegal immigrants. But don't complain when prices go up because cheap labor is no longer available.

As far as amnesty goes, I have no problem with illegals who have paid taxes and/or are willing to pay fines and taxes to become legal. They're contributing more to our economy then Americans who would rather receive an unemployment check than work, or corporations who evade taxes. I'm all for deporting all illegals that evade taxes or are criminally dangerous.
Assuming was your first mistake.

Even your own link states
Quote:
So, how much do illegal immigrants cost federal, state and local governments in the U.S.? Estimates vary widely, and no consensus exists. The Urban Institute put the net national cost at $1.9 billion in 1992; a Rice University professor, whose work the Urban Institute criticized, said it was $19.3 billion in 1993. More recently, a 2007 report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office examined 29 reports on state and local costs published over 15 years in an attempt to answer this question. CBO concluded that most of the estimates determined that illegal immigrants impose a net cost to state and local governments but "that impact is most likely modest." CBO said "no agreement exists as to the size of, or even the best way of measuring, that cost on a national level."
Freeloading corporations? More Progressive propaganda and rhetoric.

Why not make the farmers obtain the H2A visa? Ignorance aside, problem now averted.

The construction industry? You have no clue as to what you are describing. Most laborers in the construction field are crews brought in by small business employers, having mostly 5 - 10 employees. Most are sub-contractors and pay their employees as independent contractors where no payroll deductions are withheld. Some are even picked up from the Home Depot parking lot.

Most major construction company's who have their own crews don't knowingly use illegals.

More Progressive rhetoric...all corporations are regulated, some to death. You obviously have no economic background whatsoever. Hypocrite? So now people who purchase product are hypocrites because, by law the employee is required to present documents in order to obtain that job, but because these illegals provide fake/forged documents, the person purchasing the product is suppose to know that what they are buying was made with illegal labor. You seem to be grasping at straws now.

Why not implement E-Verify? That alone would get rid of the fake/forged documentation to the point of almost no illegal working. Then if illegals are found to be working and paid under the table go after the employer. You have shown no proof that prices would increase due to illegals being removed from the US, its nothing but conjecture on your part at this point.

Very few, if any, illegals would fit the criteria of contributing more than what they use by way of what few taxes they pay. They are not contributing to our economy when they cost our economy $14B in GDP. You have yet to show any corporation evading taxes. Just because you and ThinkProgress claim it doesn't make it fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
All your links have already been disproved as largely myths on the website I linked you to, so I'm not going to bother going through each one of them. Thanks for playing, though. It was interesting to see what sources you were using, it gives me an insight as to why people on this board are the way they are.

You obviously know very little about the economy of our country, since you keep going on and on about how much illegal immigrants are costing us. It's painful for me to listen to your babble because you clearly have no idea what sucks away most of our tax dollars down the drain. Hint, illegal immigrants are not even in the top ten most hurtful things to our economy, in fact, in the grand scheme of the economy, illegals are but a little papercut to us. I'll give you a hint at what is at the very top of our problems, though, take a look at your detailed bill the next you're in the hospital.

I've never defended illegal immigrants. I've just rallied against the delusional Americans that think illegal immigrants are the cause of all problems. That doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for them, my parents came to this country (albiet legally, though) in the search of a better life, much the same way illegals do. That's why I don't mind those who's only crime is to be illegal, and have been paying taxes and not being a burden on our welfare system, to become legal. No, that does not mean I'm for forgiving ID theft or any other serious crime.
No, No they haven't, sorry you assumed so.

ThinkProgress as a source for you.... Maybe you should look for unbiased material. nothing gives insight to one who does nothing but assume based on Progressive propaganda....thanks for playin though.

I think it is you who knows very little about our economy, your ThinkProgress rhetoric isn't quite an economic guide.

What does suck away our tax dollars down the drain? Illegals are part of the problem. Wasn't the grand scheme of our problems the burst housing bubble?

You have ruled out every illegal that has had a child here with your claim of not being a burden to our welfare system, the rest you have ruled out with actually paying taxes and not forgiving those that have used forged/fake documents, since the only taxes that your link claims they pay are local taxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
No, no-one's directly come out and said illegal immigrants are the cause of all problems, but your attitudes say it for you.

I was waiting for you to say this so that I can tell you how wrong you are. Uninsured americans and illegals are not the cause for our high hospital bills. It's the health care market having a hold on congress and operating as though health care was a free market (which it's not.) Do you know why we spend so much on Medicaid and Medicare? It's because the health care industry lobbies congress to force Medicare and Medicaid to pay more then private insurance. A wheel chair bought by Medicare or Medicaid cost twice as much as one bought by a private insurance company, and that's just the beginning of it. Everything hospitals buy, from medicine, to latex gloves, are ridiculously overpriced because thats the way the healthcare industry wants it, since they know insurance companies have to pay for it. However, walk into a pharmacy where you're the one doing the paying and not the insurance companies, and everything is a lot cheaper. $5 dollar pharmacy gauze will cost you hundreds of dollars at a hospital. The healthcare industry churns billions and billions of dollars of PROFITS every single year, very little of that profit goes to doctors, most of it goes to private investors. Illegal immigrants and and uninsured americans are no burden on the health care industry, and are not the cause of our high hospital bills. I've only touched on the tip of the iceburg. Do your own research rather than relying on the mainstream media.

Age does not equate to knowledge. Despite being 65, you don't seem to know anything about government spending. But I don't blame you, the interent is modern phenomenon, so you've probably relied on the American media for most of your information growing up. I'm sorry if I offended you in any of my comments, that was not my intention.
What attitudes?

So costs that don't get reimbursed by illegals or persons skipping out on their hospital bill isn't some of the cause? The Health industry having a hold on congress?

You might try doing some better research then relying on Progressive BS from far-left biased web sites.

Neither does rhetoric and propaganda, but that didn't stop you from espousing it.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 04-11-2013 at 06:35 PM..
 
Old 04-11-2013, 06:30 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
Actually, there not. Most are hispanics in East Harlem are Puerto Rican who all here legally.

The US has no official language. English is simply the main language, and the language the world does business with. Part of what makes this country so great is it's diversity and freedom. It's why people immigrate to this country. First generation immigrants from a non-english speaking countries almost always never learn English well, but future generations grow up speaking English. There's nothing wrong with me, or any of my fellow second generation immigrants retaining part our culture, part of our heritage. Your ballant racism appalls me .
Uh' "Hispanic" ain't a race tho it seems the darker skinned they are, Hispanic people WANT to hold onto be called "Hispanic" instead of Indian or even worse, "Black".
 
Old 04-11-2013, 06:37 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,290,347 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astorian31 View Post
No, we're not talking about constantly choosing spanish over english, we're talking about my right, and the right of my fellow hispanic americans to speak spanish where ever we are, when ever we want. Another poster in this thread basically said I should never speak spanish in public and that I should keep any evidence of my hispanic culture confined to my house, less I risk offending his delicate sensibilities. I have already stated many times in this thread, that while I understand why many 1st generation speak only spanish, I also think that they should do a better job of assimilating the english language. But that doesn't apply to 2nd generation Hispanic Americans because we all know english. No one has the right to tell me what I can or can not do in my own country when I'm not breaking any laws.

I have never defended companies taking an illegal immigrant instead of American. All I said is that they are the reason why we have illegal immigrants in the first. I want to crack down on illegal immigration too, but I'm not blind to problems we ourselves create that bring illegal immigrants here in the first place. Like any human being, I'm sympathetic to the plight of others, so I'm not against amnesty for the hard working illegals that are already here, so long as we fix the problem that keeps causing more of them to come over.

All American are entitled to work in this country, regardless of age, gender and race, but not all Americans are entitled to "fair" wage. The wage should be what the market dictates as long as it's above the minimum wage. McDonald workers and their unions want a $15 wage for flipping burgers. Thats the best example of American entitlement in the past month. And there's many more.

Your analogy makes no sense whatsoever.

Deporting illegals is not going to solve our problems. It's just a waste of our taxes. For every 100 we deport, another 101 will cross right back. the only way to stop them is change the root of the problem: US. We are all responsible, greedy employers exists because we let them exist, because we're trying cure cancer (illegal immigration) with a band-aid.
E Verify, stop birthright unless at least 1 parent is a US citizen, NO bilingual education in schools like as in English ONLY except in foreign language classes, NO US ID for illegal aliens, nail any that use a fake SSN and so on. MOST illegals will leave the US.
 
Old 04-11-2013, 11:57 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
6,548 posts, read 11,626,150 times
Reputation: 3970
Interesting posts about language. I am of Chinese descent and speak Chinese fluently though English is my first language. I rarely speak Chinese in public except with my immediate family since that is my parents first language. Even when speaking to other Chinese Americans I don't know I speak EnglishI only speak Chinese with a stranger when they are not able to converse in English. Most Asian Americans who are born in the US speak English only with one another too. I've also noticed that Chinese Americans and Korean Americans tend to give their kids American first names, while Mexicans, Muslims, and Indians can be here many generations and still have foreign first names. I think when your kid is born in America and you still choose to name him Antonio, Mohammed, Shaheed, Jalil, or Barack it shows a lack of assimilation.

But now back to the original post, what do y'all think of a license basically revealing someone's illegality, and if you were a liquor store who cards someone and discovers their illegality will you report them? Try to keep them there? Cause we were discussing SSN's and such with the Apple place but in some states now that give illegal aliens licenses.......if you see that license you basically KNOW FOR CERTAIN about the person's illegality.
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