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Old 10-28-2007, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,755 posts, read 23,220,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
This is all the more reason we must have a 'Manhattan Project' to mechanize the harvesting of crops.
Perhaps, but I suspect sufficient labor is available at the right price. It might not fully meet our needs, but the illegals won't all be leaving at once, so we have a couple of years to see if we can develop an economic strategy to get the labor needed matched with the under or unemployed.
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:18 PM
 
2,432 posts, read 6,004,847 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
But, there is work, and it needs to get done to keep the economy from crashing, who do you propose do it?
Americans. Just because millions and millions of illegals sneak over here and drive down wages by working for less than Americans would doesn't mean Americans won't do the work themselves. Will wages have to come up to where they should be? Of course. But Americans will do the work.
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:21 PM
 
Location: California
3,432 posts, read 2,158,301 times
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I highly doubt farmers will bring up the wages. Unless of course they were forced to by the Government. This would be interesting.
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
I highly doubt farmers will bring up the wages. Unless of course they were forced to by the Government. This would be interesting.
Supply and demand will answer that question.
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:39 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,707,816 times
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Quote:
Americans. Just because millions and millions of illegals sneak over here and drive down wages by working for less than Americans would doesn't mean Americans won't do the work themselves. Will wages have to come up to where they should be? Of course. But Americans will do the work.
We are of course speaking of over a million workers in the fields of America, where is this surplus of Americans workers?

Mechanization. We can harvest grapes mechanically, you don't want the wine produced that way. We can harvest celery and probably strawberries mechanically, but you won't want to eat them. Please invent for me a bell pepper harvester, of course it cannot bruise the peppers and it cannot pick the under ripe or the over ripe.
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Old 10-28-2007, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Southern California
57 posts, read 172,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
We are of course speaking of over a million workers in the fields of America, where is this surplus of Americans workers?
Mostly on welfare and in prison.

Let's put these bums to use and teach them the value of an honest day's work.

Quote:
Mechanization. We can harvest grapes mechanically, you don't want the wine produced that way. We can harvest celery and probably strawberries mechanically, but you won't want to eat them. Please invent for me a bell pepper harvester, of course it cannot bruise the peppers and it cannot pick the under ripe or the over ripe.
You grossly underestimate American ingenuity.

MOD CUT

Last edited by NewToCA; 10-28-2007 at 10:42 PM.. Reason: historical presidential voting is irrelevant
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:28 AM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,707,816 times
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Field work requires expertise. Today crews often specialize in certain crops, lettuce cutters don't pick strawberries. Planters don't cut. These rules are not hard and fast, but I would like to think that you get the picture that the work is not unskilled. Bringing people who have little work ethic and poor physical conditioning can be done, would you like them working for you?
Some of the work is extremely physical and is only done by young men. Using "teenage unwed mothers on dope" simply won't work. Look, you need to apply a certain level of critical thinking here, growers are in business to make money. They make money by bringing produce at the correct maturity to market. Their profit directly depends on being as efficient as possible. At this point in time manual field work for most crops is the only way to do it. The number of manhours required to grow and harvest a vegetable crop would astound a midwestern grain farmer. In the Santa Maria Valley over 20 million manhours are expended each season. Legal labor accounts for about half the needed work force. That means that in this one small valley, about 10 million more manhours are needed. This requires growers to employ whom ever shows up. The fact that many of the workers are undocumented may not please the grower. But if the crops that are consumed by Americans are to be grown and harvested you do what you have to do.

If you own a business you realize that labor is a very large part of your overhead. If you have the ability to reduce labor, you will increase profit. The same thing works in the fields. Trust me, if farmers could reduce their intense labor needs, they would.

And they do to as great an extent as possible. Fer instance. There are no more packing sheds, all packing is done in the fields. The many packing shed workers of years ago no longer exist.

Quote:
Quote:
"Mechanization. We can harvest grapes mechanically, you don't want the wine produced that way. We can harvest celery and probably strawberries mechanically, but you won't want to eat them. Please invent for me a bell pepper harvester, of course it cannot bruise the peppers and it cannot pick the under ripe or the over ripe."

"You grossly underestimate American ingenuity."
UC Davis has for many years had an ag machine development program. Growers too modify equipment. Since the unionization of the field workers increased labor costs about 1975, development of machinery has been a priority. Here we are after 30 years of intense work to develop machines that reduce the need for hand labor. Still needing millions of manhours of manual labor in the fields.

I think what happens here is that the severe anti illegal crowd knows what they would like to see, but do not understand that their goal is not practical. It is as if all these thread complained about automobiles not getting a thousand miles per gallon. Getting a thousand miles per gallon would be a good thing, but it is not likely to happen in the near future.
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,689,364 times
Reputation: 2977
Offer a visa program for illegals who can prove the ability to keep themselves and their family above the poverty line and pay taxes into the system, and who have no criminal record. Include a ~5000 fine (payable in installments over many years) along with processing fees. The visa would allow them to naturalize after several years proving they can keep a job and stay above the poverty line.

Seal the border with physical barriers where necessary. Increase border patrol resources for problem areas.

Deport all illegals who do not apply for the new visa program. This number will be much smaller than the current number of illegals and easier for ICE to enforce. It will include mostly those who cannot hold down a decent job and those with criminal records.

Stop all family-based immigration programs for persons who are not immediate relatives (Spouses, minor children) of US legal residents. Those who have already applied can finish processing, but the program for extended family immigration should end.

Offer automatic (with a large processing fee) green cards for any immigrant who completes a 4-year technical degree at a US university, but reduce the amount of student visas offered.

Institute a employement-based visa program to allow immigration of skilled and unskilled labor. Immigrants would have to prove the ability to hold a job that keeps them and their household above the poverty line and paying into the tax system. Similiar to the legalization visa, this visa would allow them to become citizens after several years staying employed, paying taxes, and off public assistance programs.

The number of visas issued each year must be tied directly to unemployement and total population. The number of visas will not exceed 0.5% of the total US population (1.5 million), and it will shrink as unemployment rises, expand as it decreases.

This is, IMO, the best solution to the problem of illegal immigration.
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:56 AM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,061,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
I highly doubt farmers will bring up the wages. Unless of course they were forced to by the Government. This would be interesting.
Wages are determined by market forces, not individual farmers.
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:57 AM
 
Location: SanAnFortWAbiHoustoDalCentral, Texas
791 posts, read 1,980,535 times
Reputation: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
But, there is work, and it needs to get done to keep the economy from crashing, who do you propose do it?

Now before you answer try this, bend over touch the floor with your hands, now straighten up reach your hands out in front of you as if you were handing something to someone head high. Now bend over again touch your hands to the floor, then repeat, now do this for 10 hours, out side in the cold of the wind off the ocean or the heat of the sun inland, you get a ten minute break each hour and a 1/2 hour for lunch, now, try this for 6 days straight. Then you get one day off, then repeat. Oh, start at 6:00 AM, outside, no shade.
Either you're going to pay me a great deal more than minimum wage for the exercise or you'll go out of business for lack of labor. Or, you can wait for the 'Mother of all Tax Hikes' to put you out of business.
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