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View Poll Results: Correllation of beliefs question.
Illegal immigration bad, invasion of Iraq, good 6 14.63%
Illegal immigration necessary evil, invasion of Iraq bad. 9 21.95%
Illegal immigration bad, invasion of Iraq, bad 26 63.41%
Illegal immigration necessary evil, invasion of Iraq good. 0 0%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-29-2007, 02:34 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,067,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
I want what?, did I claim a right or a wrong?
Yes, you asked, "...let me know if I am right."

How can we tell if you are right if we don't know what you believe? Presenting a (meaningless, IMO) poll tells you what we think, not what you believe.

So, tell us, how do you correlate views on illegal immigration with those on Iraq?
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Old 10-29-2007, 02:45 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
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Quote:
let me know if I am right."
I know whether I was right or not, which is what I wanted. After we get a statistically meaningful sample I will expound.
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Old 10-29-2007, 06:27 PM
 
140 posts, read 79,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
I have a theory that views on immigration reflect a certain way of thinking. Do you agree with A,B,C,D?

A, Illegal immigration is a serious negative problem and invading and occupying Iraq was the right thing to do.

B, Illegal immigration while not desirable supplies needed workers to keep the economy of the United States functioning, and invading and occupying Iraq was a horrendous mistake.


C. Illegal immigration is a serious negative problem, and invading and occupying Iraq was a horrendous mistake.

D, Illegal immigration while not desirable supplies needed workers to keep the economy of the United States functioning and invading and occupying Iraq was the right thing to do.
Two seperate issues, what are you trying to prove or disprove by lumping them together?
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Old 10-29-2007, 07:00 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
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See the post above yours.
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Old 10-29-2007, 08:05 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,711,257 times
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Ok, I think we are seeing a viable score.
My thesis was that the anti illegal crowd would be pro Iraq war, that it was basically the right wing position.
I was surprised and pleased to find I am wrong, A clear majority understand the Iraq war was a horrendous mistake, even if they are anti's
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Kingman AZ
15,371 posts, read 33,794,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Ok, I think we are seeing a viable score.
My thesis was that the anti illegal crowd would be pro Iraq war, that it was basically the right wing position.
I was surprised and pleased to find I am wrong, A clear majority understand the Iraq war was a horrendous mistake, even if they are anti's
EXCEPT....you said INVASION of Iraq......NOT war n Iraq.....I am avowedly pro invasion but think we should have gone in 'guns ablazing' neutarlized his Air Farce....eliminated HIM and then smiled and left rather then waged war. And we should also deny access to all that wish to enter our country illegally.
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,755 posts, read 23,235,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatbasinguide View Post
Ok, I think we are seeing a viable score.
My thesis was that the anti illegal crowd would be pro Iraq war, that it was basically the right wing position.
I was surprised and pleased to find I am wrong, A clear majority understand the Iraq war was a horrendous mistake, even if they are anti's
I've seen some of this type of sentiment posted in other places too. I think folks who think the illegal immigrant issue is liberal or conservative are way off base.

Going against the stereotypes (liberals for illegals, conservatives against), I'll give you some examples as to why I think this is true.

Conservatives could be FOR illegal immigration because they are the supporters of big business and free markets. Having illegals creates a larger labor pool, reducing labor cost for production of many products, and also a larger USA customer base for products. Illegals buy goods while working here. Their farm labor also increases our exported goods base.

Liberals could be AGAINST illegals because it makes it tougher to fund services adequately, the dillution of funding across a wider population base means you can do fewer things. In addition, issues like minimum wage and improved working condition are tougher to get enforced or passed when so many are willing to work outside of the system.

So, I really don't think this is a liberal vs conservative issue at all.
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:59 PM
 
Location: CA Coast
1,900 posts, read 1,711,257 times
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NewtoCa I cannot say I disagree with you. I think the venomous language got me to thinking it was particular part of the political spectrum given to venomous language.

good to know I am not too old to learn something.
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Old 10-30-2007, 04:09 AM
 
Location: Northern VA (for now)
23,024 posts, read 31,998,566 times
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I said both were bad. Both are costing us money that we desperately need for our education (we keep falling futher behind) and to help a violent crime increase in the US.
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Old 10-30-2007, 09:38 AM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,662,912 times
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We live in a world where the information we have is never complete. If we know everything there is to know, we'd be omniscient, and we'd Be God. But we're not God. The reality is we act on the best information that is available. In retrospect, it appears that the invasion of Iraq was based on faulty intelligence. At least with respect to the presence of usable WMDs. But what is not in dispute is that Saddam Hussein possessed the motive and the means to develop a WMD program. Should Bush have waited until he had 100% certainty of the existence of WMDs? I don't think so. Hence, I supported the Iraq invasion based on this calculation.

On immigration, I am in favor of loosening our immigration laws to allow people who want to work in the United States to enter our country and eventually become taxpaying citizens. I am in favor of an employment-based immigration policy. But since people have families, it only makes sense to include immediate family members in the process. By immediate, I mean the nuclear family. No 2nd or 3rd degree relatives. Since the idea is to make the worker stay in this country and feel like this is his home, having his family with him increases that chance that he will be happy here and become a productive citizen of his adoptive country.

I don't agree with the claim that having more workers is a plot by greedy capitalists to depress the cost of labor. We need more workers because we need more workers. The demand for goods and services exists, and someone needs to produce them if we want to continue eating our vegetables or getting our health care.

Decreasing labor costs is not necessarily a bad thing either. Reason: it lowers inflation, which ultimately benefis everybody. Low inflation is good, high inflation is bad. Those who oppose immigration need to think this through: what good is your high wages when the cost of everything around you is rising in tandem (because of high labor costs)? A large labor pool ensures that wage inflation is kept in check.

In economics, tradeoffs are the name of the game. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want our country to remain prosperous, you need to understand what keeps the economy growing.
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