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View Poll Results: Correllation of beliefs question.
Illegal immigration bad, invasion of Iraq, good 6 14.63%
Illegal immigration necessary evil, invasion of Iraq bad. 9 21.95%
Illegal immigration bad, invasion of Iraq, bad 26 63.41%
Illegal immigration necessary evil, invasion of Iraq good. 0 0%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-30-2007, 12:37 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,660,148 times
Reputation: 1719

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Laws are artificial, you say? Good. I think I'll come over and "borrow" your car. I have a need for another vehicle. The laws prohibiting theft are obviously out of sync with reality (the reality is that I really do need another car).
Laws cannot be arbitrary. They actually have to be grounded in reality. They must have a rational basis. Laws that limit the number of immigrant workers even though there is a need for them are irrational. They are based on unfounded fears of competition. Your response above is impertinent.
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Old 10-30-2007, 12:40 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,660,148 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
They hire them because they are CHEAP. They wont give americans the time of day because they do not want to pay an appropriate wage. Now, someone said a while back that lettuce pickers get 20-30 an hour, if true ( not where my family is) I would be out there in a heart beat, so would my kids and many others I now that have been displaced.
Cheap? Or maybe you are too EXPENSIVE. But regardless, that's how free markets operate. The fair wage is the wage that the market will bear. Maybe you need to lower your price. Or increase your value so you can command a higher price.
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Old 10-30-2007, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,697,044 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Cheap? Or maybe you are too EXPENSIVE. But regardless, that's how free markets operate. The fair wage is the wage that the market will bear. Maybe you need to lower your price. Or increase your value so you can command a higher price.
Why did you come up with the idea I was talking about myself? I worked the farms, I know the score. I know my family pays a livable wage to citizens, has no labor issues and is making fair profits and doing it legally. So much for cant be done. Dont see a problem with that. And too expensive, no dont think so, not by todays standards, how about the farmers and companies to Greedy?! There is very little passing saving on to consumers, more like passing savings on to their own bank accounts. And anyone that doesnt believe that is really in their own little world.
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Old 10-30-2007, 12:50 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
Laws cannot be arbitrary. They actually have to be grounded in reality. They must have a rational basis. Laws that limit the number of immigrant workers even though there is a need for them are irrational. They are based on unfounded fears of competition. Your response above is impertinent.
If I may be so bold, I think what the poster here is trying to say is that "the laws prohibiting 'charlatans and quacks' from practicing medicine are necessary, sensible, and grounded in common sense....But the laws prohibiting unauthorized persons from entering into the United States through unsupervised points of entry are mean, racist, xenophobic, and grounded only in the selfishness of legal Americans"

In a similar vein, he seems to be suggesting that "the fact that novice medical personnel and new physicians are worked brutally, in 24-hour shifts, and are tested to their emotional, physical, and psychological limits during their internship, is a necessary part of professional qualification. But the idea that new immigrants, legal or illegal, should be asked to qualify in any way to become part of American society is simply mean-spirited, juvenile 'hazing' ".

Of course, I can't speak for the poster---but I believe this is the "crux" of his message...If I've gotten this wrong, I do apologize.
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:03 PM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,497 posts, read 4,375,406 times
Reputation: 727
I would much rather they had attacked IRAN rather than Iraq. Attacking Iraq was a mistake - we should have blasted Iran back into the Stone Age. Iran and Syria are FAR WORSE than Sadam Hussein ever was.

Another Bush bungle, along with his idiotic illegal alien amnesty push!!
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,697,044 times
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Given more time, Sadam and his boys would have been up there with Hitler. Personally I am glad him and his sons are gone. Now we need to focus on the other crazies.
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:12 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,660,148 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
In a similar vein, he seems to be suggesting that "the fact that novice medical personnel and new physicians are worked brutally, in 24-hour shifts, and are tested to their emotional, physical, and psychological limits during their internship, is a necessary part of professional qualification. But the idea that new immigrants, legal or illegal, should be asked to qualify in any way to become part of American society is simply mean-spirited, juvenile 'hazing' ".
False analogy. Medical training is not hazing in that it is not ritualistic. There is a reason why surgeons actually have to sweat it out to practice their skills. It's because their skills have a direct correlation to the quality of care they will later provide. It's not because we just want them to have a rite of passage. On the other hand, your idea of assimilation is to harrass new immigrants MOD CUT. There is no correlation between the amount of harrassment immigrants get and their eventual behavior as good citizens. If there is, show us the evidence of it. MOD CUT

Last edited by NewToCA; 10-30-2007 at 03:38 PM.. Reason: Inappropriate expansion of opposing poster sentiment - take it to a DM for that discussion, please
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:19 PM
 
Location: The best country in the world: the USA
1,497 posts, read 4,375,406 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Given more time, Sadam and his boys would have been up there with Hitler. Personally I am glad him and his sons are gone. Now we need to focus on the other crazies.
Oh, I am GLAD Sadam is gone too, but I think the real Hitler is in Iran. Saddam was more "Westernized" in the sense that as long as he held power, had lots of luxurious palaces and expensive cars, he didn't really care.

Iranian Dictator Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wants DEATH. He cares for no luxuries, as long as he can kill Jews, kill Christians, and kills anyone else who disagree with Islamo-Fascism and Sharia law.

I think the Iranians are far worse. I disagree with Bush on pretty much everything - specially amnesty pushes and his neo-liberal views (and I am a real conservative, go figure), but I agree with his statement that if Iran develop nukes, Iran will start WWIII, by either attacking Israel with a nuke or by providing a nuke to Al-Qaeda so they can waltz across "the big hole" (a/k/a the Mexican border) and blow up a US city.

Mark my words: if Iran gets nukes, it WILL happen. Iranians = terrorists. They need to be stopped NOW, not later.
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:25 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
False analogy. Medical training is not hazing in that it is not ritualistic. There is a reason why surgeons actually have to sweat it out to practice their skills. It's because their skills have a direct correlation to the quality of care they will later provide. It's not because we just want them to have a rite of passage. On the other hand, your idea of assimilation is to harrass new immigrants MOD CUT. There is no correlation between the amount of harrassment immigrants get and their eventual behavior as good citizens. If there is, show us the evidence of it MOD CUT.
OK, you win---I give up. However, I have a last request. Can you substantiate your assertations MOD CUT? MOD CUT nor do I recall advocating any sort of "ritualistic" hazing. If you can show where I did say these things, I will apologize to you on this forum. Fair enough?

Last edited by NewToCA; 10-30-2007 at 03:43 PM.. Reason: modified to match up better with posting be responded too
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,697,044 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana-Guy View Post
Oh, I am GLAD Sadam is gone too, but I think the real Hitler is in Iran. Saddam was more "Westernized" in the sense that as long as he held power, had lots of luxurious palaces and expensive cars, he didn't really care.

Iranian Dictator Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wants DEATH. He cares for no luxuries, as long as he can kill Jews, kill Christians, and kills anyone else who disagree with Islamo-Fascism and Sharia law.

I think the Iranians are far worse. I disagree with Bush on pretty much everything - specially amnesty pushes and his neo-liberal views (and I am a real conservative, go figure), but I agree with his statement that if Iran develop nukes, Iran will start WWIII, by either attacking Israel with a nuke or by providing a nuke to Al-Qaeda so they can waltz across "the big hole" (a/k/a the Mexican border) and blow up a US city.

Mark my words: if Iran gets nukes, it WILL happen. Iranians = terrorists. They need to be stopped NOW, not later.
Oh I agree completely, I dont think sanctions will do anything against Iran.
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