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Old 11-26-2013, 03:55 PM
 
23,851 posts, read 19,144,158 times
Reputation: 9377

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
What if a law passed (somehow) making it illegal to criticize the government? Most of us would sign up for a life of crime instantly.

Some crimes are not actually wrong. Crossing an imaginary line after a bunch of white people instead of before, is one of them. Besides, reasoning tells me the current "path to citizenship" must really suck. I don't see risking one's own life sneaking in when it's reasonably simple and easy to get permission first...
That's the stupidest argument I've ever seen put forth on this topic. Your entire premise is underpinned by the complete and total lack of respect for national sovereignty. It's mindboggling that people with your opinions actually exist in this great nation.
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:18 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
That's the stupidest argument I've ever seen put forth on this topic. Your entire premise is underpinned by the complete and total lack of respect for national sovereignty. It's mindboggling that people with your opinions actually exist in this great nation.
You will find that there are many pro-illegals who try to justify illegal immigration into our country today based on the past and of course that gives them the chance to demonize long ago dead white Europeans and we alive today are supposedly guilty by race also. They live in the past even though the U.S. and every other country on this planet has internationally recognized borders, not imaginary lines. That is just one of the reasons that amnesty would be a mistake because many who are of that mindset are illegal aliens that have also showed no respect for our borders. What is even more disturbing is that many of their supporters who are citizens of this country are of that same mindset also.
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:44 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,943,552 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
What exactly do you consider a "hater?" Someone who objects to a criminal being reward for his/her criminal actions by granting them citizenship?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
What if a law passed (somehow) making it illegal to criticize the government? Most of us would sign up for a life of crime instantly.

Some crimes are not actually wrong. Crossing an imaginary line after a bunch of white people instead of before, is one of them. Besides, reasoning tells me the current "path to citizenship" must really suck. I don't see risking one's own life sneaking in when it's reasonably simple and easy to get permission first...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
That's the stupidest argument I've ever seen put forth on this topic. Your entire premise is underpinned by the complete and total lack of respect for national sovereignty. It's mindboggling that people with your opinions actually exist in this great nation.
...I notice you didn't actually elaborate on why my argument is "stupid"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You will find that there are many pro-illegals who try to justify illegal immigration into our country today based on the past and of course that gives them the chance to demonize long ago dead white Europeans and we alive today are supposedly guilty by race also.
Maybe so, but that's not what I'm doing. Would you like to return now to addressing what I am saying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
They live in the past even though the U.S. and every other country on this planet has internationally recognized borders, not imaginary lines.
Of course they are imaginary. They're not actual lines, and we "drew" them out of thin air for no practical reason other than our own (made up, once again) concept of territory. I don't see what all the fuss is about; I didn't call it wrong or say we should do away with them. In fact, I said a few times now that I'm 100% fine with our borders being secured. Methinks you are trying to create a monster where one does not exist, which is what the hostility against illegal immigrants as a whole really boils down to in the first place. People know it's not hurting them for a decent human being to walk across this line we pretend exists. But if they can pretend that line exists, pretending that every person that crosses it without our government's permission is destroying our country isn't all that hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
That is just one of the reasons that amnesty would be a mistake because many who are of that mindset are illegal aliens that have also showed no respect for our borders.
Don't you find it a little transparent, calling this a characteristic of illegal immigrants, in a thread showing that most American citizens also agree with it? And what do you mean by "no respect for our borders"? What is it you are afraid of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
What is even more disturbing is that many of their supporters who are citizens of this country are of that same mindset also.
Why?
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:59 PM
 
17,022 posts, read 9,064,676 times
Reputation: 5685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
60% of Americans support allowing illegal immigrants to become citizens.

If your premise is true, which I sincerely doubt, put it to a national vote and see what the results look like. I could be wrong, but I doubt that they would turn out the way the government and the press wish they would.


I'd bet you are most correct in this.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,521,471 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
What if a law passed (somehow) making it illegal to criticize the government? Most of us would sign up for a life of crime instantly.

Some crimes are not actually wrong. Crossing an imaginary line after a bunch of white people instead of before, is one of them. Besides, reasoning tells me the current "path to citizenship" must really suck. I don't see risking one's own life sneaking in when it's reasonably simple and easy to get permission first...
Yeah that is not and imaginary line, it is a real line and real consequences for crossing it.

The Democartic want to grant amnesty so the can add millions of welfare voters to the ranks.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:04 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47449
if that were true the 3rd amnesty would have passed long ago. america cant provide jobs for all of its own people much less the people of mexico that want to cross over and squat a slice of the american dream. btw invading & squatting and then demanding land municiplal service is a common tactic in tijuana according to the kpbs program of 2 days ago.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,521,471 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Well, that's disturbingly simple.


First one to the top wins!
Kohlberg’s stages of moral development | Abagond



I'm not saying we shouldn't stop people from just coming in by the hundreds. There is most certainly good rationale behind screening them - keeping violent criminals, harmful drug dealers, and sex offenders out of our country. But an ordinary person crossing this imaginary line (even illegally) is doing nothing morally wrong and I don't see why we'd waste further resources taking them back out of the country.

At any rate, I was just pointing out that not all criminals are people who've done something truly wrong and therefore I'm fine with a fraction of them being "rewarded" with citizenship, sure.
Yes that did do something wrong, your opinion does not alter this fact.

But you are OK with Tens of Millions of people coming into a nation and upsetting the cultural, ethnic political, ans socio economic atmosphere of this nation into the same collectivist mobocracy of their failed home nation? I mean you are OK with that, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post

Of course they are imaginary. They're not actual lines, and we "drew" them out of thin air for no practical reason other than our own (made up, once again) concept of territory. I don't see what all the fuss is about; I didn't call it wrong or say we should do away with them. In fact, I said a few times now that I'm 100% fine with our borders being secured. Methinks you are trying to create a monster where one does not exist, which is what the hostility against illegal immigrants as a whole really boils down to in the first place. People know it's not hurting them for a decent human being to walk across this line we pretend exists. But if they can pretend that line exists, pretending that every person that crosses it without our government's permission is destroying our country isn't all that hard.

No there are monsters that do exist, and we are fighting them, It is not our people you cant see them, but it does not make them any less dangerous.

It is a line, between liberty and tyranny, between law and order and chaos, between individualism or collectivism.

They are, have you seen what they did to California after the 1986 amnesty?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
That's the stupidest argument I've ever seen put forth on this topic. Your entire premise is underpinned by the complete and total lack of respect for national sovereignty. It's mindboggling that people with your opinions actually exist in this great nation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You will find that there are many pro-illegals who try to justify illegal immigration into our country today based on the past and of course that gives them the chance to demonize long ago dead white Europeans and we alive today are supposedly guilty by race also. They live in the past even though the U.S. and every other country on this planet has internationally recognized borders, not imaginary lines. That is just one of the reasons that amnesty would be a mistake because many who are of that mindset are illegal aliens that have also showed no respect for our borders. What is even more disturbing is that many of their supporters who are citizens of this country are of that same mindset also.
Proof that liberalism is a mental disorder.

Last edited by Yac; 11-28-2013 at 02:23 AM.. Reason: 3 posts in a row merged
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:48 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8350
Pretend a line exists also known as a border? WTH? All countries including the U.S. have internationally recognized borders. There is no pretend about it! Tell Mexico to erase its "pretend" southern border and allow in every Guatamalan into their country that wants to go there then. I mean what's fair is fair, right?

Why shouldn't any nation be hostile towards illegal aliens especially when it harms their own citizens and is a violation of their nation's immigration laws. We can't allow everyone in here based on being "nice". No nation bases it's immigration policies on niceness. It's about their ability to supply them with jobs and resources and diversity goes out the window when allowing those who are mostly from one ethnic group. Diversity aids in assimilation. The opposite creates colonization.

If these illegal aliens were truly decent they wouldn't thumb their noses at our immigration laws and take jobs and resources from Americans that they aren't entitled to.
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:53 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,943,552 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Yeah that is not and imaginary line, it is a real line and real consequences for crossing it.

The Democartic want to grant amnesty so the can add millions of welfare voters to the ranks.
I'm not going to explain to you guys (again!) what makes it an imaginary line, but just how did you come to the conclusion that the 60% polled was made up primarily or solely of Democrats?

This board is real bad about blaming everything on liberals/conservatives. Can't we stay on topic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Yes that did do something wrong, your opinion does not alter this fact.
Lol, questions of morality are not matters of fact. And the law of the land is not the be all end all of right and wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
But you are OK with Tens of Millions of people coming into a nation and upsetting the cultural,
Uhh, I believe I said (so many times it's ridiculous) that I think the border should be secured and probably better than it is already. But tell me about this "upsetting the cultural atmosphere" of the U.S. Are we all going to have to eat tres leches cakes instead of butter cream in the year 2020?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
ethnic political,
I don't know what would be more unsettling - you meaning to separate "ethnic" and "political" (thus meaning you just don't want brown people here) or you thinking "ethnic political" is actually a facet with meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
ans socio economic atmosphere of this nation into the same collectivist mobocracy of their failed home nation? I mean you are OK with that, right?
Okay, specify what it is you're afraid of along these lines, if you don't mind. I asked someone else to do it here and, well, you know. But maybe you can.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,521,471 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
I'm not going to explain to you guys (again!) what makes it an imaginary line, but just how did you come to the conclusion that the 60% polled was made up primarily or solely of Democrats?

This board is real bad about blaming everything on liberals/conservatives. Can't we stay on topic?

You have no argument, stop trying to explain your insanity.

Quote:
Lol, questions of morality are not matters of fact. And the law of the land is not the be all end all of right and wrong
Morality is subjective, Facts are not, which is funny because facts are never on the side of leftist.

Quote:
Uhh, I believe I said (so many times it's ridiculous) that I think the border should be secured and probably better than it is already. But tell me about this "upsetting the cultural atmosphere" of the U.S. Are we all going to have to eat tres leches cakes instead of butter cream in the year 2020?
And how is that a good thing? Our culture is being push out by people who have not legal right to be here, and spreading a cultural of collectivism, which is antithetical to our culture of individualism.

Quote:
I don't know what would be more unsettling - you meaning to separate "ethnic" and "political" (thus meaning you just don't want brown people here) or you thinking "ethnic political" is actually a facet with meaning.
I want people who understand that we a nation of laws, and yes they are upsetting the balance of this nation.

Really? A facet? so there is no such thing as race politics?

Quote:
Okay, specify what it is you're afraid of along these lines, if you don't mind. I asked someone else to do it here and, well, you know. But maybe you can.
America becoming a 3rd world, mobocary run be leftist, and use mass immigration to import welfare voters to elect them in perpetuity ,allowing them to pass laws that are antithetical to the principals, reason and rights that this nation was founded on, and this government was meant to protect.

Funny how have things been working out of the last 30 namely in states that have high populations of illegals after the 1986 amnesty?
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