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Old 11-26-2013, 06:14 PM
 
229 posts, read 190,944 times
Reputation: 165

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
America becoming a 3rd world, mobocary run be leftist, and use mass immigration to import welfare voters to elect them in perpetuity ,allowing them to pass laws that are antithetical to the principals, reason and rights that this nation was founded on, and this government was meant to protect.

Funny how have things been working out of the last 30 namely in states that have high populations of illegals after the 1986 amnesty?
I agree with you...the Government could have stopped it....but your right,thats where they get their votes.
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:54 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,943,552 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
You have no argument, stop trying to explain your insanity.
That is a poor attempt at refuting the argument that surely preceded it, as anyone can read to confirm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Morality is subjective, Facts are not, which is funny because facts are never on the side of leftist.
There you go again talking about "leftists", while dodging my challenge to prove that the 60% approving of this idea were in fact liberals. I guess you think you're gonna throw me off the topic. Think again.

So you said that these people (illegal immigrants in general) have done something wrong and that is a fact, and then you backpeddle. If you have facts to support the claim that they've done something morally wrong just by crossing a boundary without our permission, please share them. Otherwise, don't put yourself on the spot by throwing the word "facts" at me. I'll just call you on it

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
And how is that a good thing? Our culture is being push out by people who have not legal right to be here, and spreading a cultural of collectivism, which is antithetical to our culture of individualism.
How is what a good thing? And can you point to something tangible, visible to demonstrate that individualism is being driven out in correlation with a rise in illegal immigration? I bet not. This, like a nation's border, is imaginary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
I want people who understand that we a nation of laws, and yes they are upsetting the balance of this nation.
We are a nation of many things. And I'm still waiting for you to specify how they are "upsetting the balance", pointing to something the rest of us can see and showing how it's actually caused by illegal immigration in and of itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Really? A facet? so there is no such thing as race politics?
Is that what you were referring to when you said "...Tens of Millions of people coming into a nation and upsetting the... ethnic political atmosphere of this nation"? Okay, I'll bite. What did you mean by that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
America becoming a 3rd world, mobocary run be leftist, and use mass immigration to import welfare voters to elect them in perpetuity ,allowing them to pass laws that are antithetical to the principals, reason and rights that this nation was founded on, and this government was meant to protect.
I wish you would ditch verbose and give clarifying a try. Once more, what is it specifically that's changed that you can show is the fault of illegal immigrants in general? And your theory on the "leftists" is intriguing. Unfortunately, like the rest of the arguments on your side, they come off as just a bit made up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Funny how have things been working out of the last 30 namely in states that have high populations of illegals after the 1986 amnesty?
Well Texas has the second highest illegal immigrant population in the U.S. and is typically the leader in job creation in spite of it. So we can't exactly blame poor economy on them *shrugs*

Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Texas adds more jobs than any other state in country, employment cr...
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:46 PM
 
1,866 posts, read 2,167,821 times
Reputation: 1440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
That is a poor attempt at refuting the argument that surely preceded it, as anyone can read to confirm.



There you go again talking about "leftists", while dodging my challenge to prove that the 60% approving of this idea were in fact liberals. I guess you think you're gonna throw me off the topic. Think again.

So you said that these people (illegal immigrants in general) have done something wrong and that is a fact, and then you backpeddle. If you have facts to support the claim that they've done something morally wrong just by crossing a boundary without our permission, please share them. Otherwise, don't put yourself on the spot by throwing the word "facts" at me. I'll just call you on it



How is what a good thing? And can you point to something tangible, visible to demonstrate that individualism is being driven out in correlation with a rise in illegal immigration? I bet not. This, like a nation's border, is imaginary.



We are a nation of many things. And I'm still waiting for you to specify how they are "upsetting the balance", pointing to something the rest of us can see and showing how it's actually caused by illegal immigration in and of itself.



Is that what you were referring to when you said "...Tens of Millions of people coming into a nation and upsetting the... ethnic political atmosphere of this nation"? Okay, I'll bite. What did you mean by that?



I wish you would ditch verbose and give clarifying a try. Once more, what is it specifically that's changed that you can show is the fault of illegal immigrants in general? And your theory on the "leftists" is intriguing. Unfortunately, like the rest of the arguments on your side, they come off as just a bit made up.



Well Texas has the second highest illegal immigrant population in the U.S. and is typically the leader in job creation in spite of it. So we can't exactly blame poor economy on them *shrugs*

Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Texas adds more jobs than any other state in country, employment cr...
Yeah the truth hurts, Vic and there is no way to tell if the 60% was only liberals, in fact, I doubt that since alot of the polls are just random people anyway. If you are expecting a GOOD answer to your questions though, then you might be in for a looonnngg wait.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,521,471 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
That is a poor attempt at refuting the argument that surely preceded it, as anyone can read to confirm.



There you go again talking about "leftists", while dodging my challenge to prove that the 60% approving of this idea were in fact liberals. I guess you think you're gonna throw me off the topic. Think again.
Did I ever claim they were all liberals? No.

Quote:
So you said that these people (illegal immigrants in general) have done something wrong and that is a fact, and then you backpeddle. If you have facts to support the claim that they've done something morally wrong just by crossing a boundary without our permission, please share them. Otherwise, don't put yourself on the spot by throwing the word "facts" at me. I'll just call you on it
Yeah they broke the law, and are in our nation illegal.


Quote:
How is what a good thing? And can you point to something tangible, visible to demonstrate that individualism is being driven out in correlation with a rise in illegal immigration? I bet not. This, like a nation's border, is imaginary.
California over the last 40 has had a rise in the its illegal population, and after the 1986 amnesty was given, they voted for and Democrat who offer a welfare check for a vote.

After that liberty and prosperity start to die in the aftermath of such laws being passed.

Higher taxes
Higher crime rates
Moronic gun laws passed by statist democrats who were elected by the newly pardoned illegals with their voting rights.
Attractive nuisance laws
Failing government run schools.

And to compound it, any one with a brain and who values Liberty, The Constitution, The Bill Of Rights, Limited Government, Gun Rights and The rule of law are leaving in droves since the 1990s.

Leaving anyone their more and more outnumber by statist and dependency voters.



Quote:
We are a nation of many things. And I'm still waiting for you to specify how they are "upsetting the balance", pointing to something the rest of us can see and showing how it's actually caused by illegal immigration in and of itself.
Have you not seen the ideals they up hold?

They still believe in Collectivist economic system like Socialism, Communist, Marxist ec,

They don't support the free market or are indifference to it.

They vote for some of the most far left candidates, all in exchange for entitlements.


Quote:
Is that what you were referring to when you said "...Tens of Millions of people coming into a nation and upsetting the... ethnic political atmosphere of this nation"? Okay, I'll bite. What did you mean by that?
They break the law, and then use their skin color as some kind of defense.

Quote:
I wish you would ditch verbose and give clarifying a try. Once more, what is it specifically that's changed that you can show is the fault of illegal immigrants in general? And your theory on the "leftists" is intriguing. Unfortunately, like the rest of the arguments on your side, they come off as just a bit made up.
Higher Crime rates
Higher Taxes
Large count and state debt
Failing public schools


Quote:
Well Texas has the second highest illegal immigrant population in the U.S. and is typically the leader in job creation in spite of it. So we can't exactly blame poor economy on them *shrugs*

Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Texas adds more jobs than any other state in country, employment cr...
The limited goverment of Texas as well as low taxes, low regulations makes that possible, not the illegals.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:57 PM
 
1,866 posts, read 2,167,821 times
Reputation: 1440
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
The limited goverment of Texas as well as low taxes, low regulations makes that possible, not the illegals.
Wow, he writes all that and you write one sentence lol, well talk about a meeting of the minds here, and no that's not all true considering that a lot of businesses profit off the low cost of immigrant labor.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:16 PM
 
Location: TX
6,009 posts, read 4,943,552 times
Reputation: 2585
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Did I ever claim they were all liberals? No.
Great. Then you can stop talking about liberals, Democrats, and leftists until you come up with a way to tie them into this poll, which could've very well been of a collection of Republicans for all you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Yeah they broke the law, and are in our nation illegal.
That is a fact, to be sure, but that doesn't prove they've done something morally wrong. Try again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
California over the last 40 has had a rise in the its illegal population, and after the 1986 amnesty was given, they voted for and Democrat who offer a welfare check for a vote.

After that liberty and prosperity start to die in the aftermath of such laws being passed.

Higher taxes
Higher crime rates
Moronic gun laws passed by statist democrats who were elected by the newly pardoned illegals with their voting rights.
Attractive nuisance laws
Failing government run schools.

And to compound it, any one with a brain and who values Liberty, The Constitution, The Bill Of Rights, Limited Government, Gun Rights and The rule of law are leaving in droves since the 1990s.

Leaving anyone their more and more outnumber by statist and dependency voters.
Sorry, are we talking about illegals or "leftists" again; I can't tell anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
Have you not seen the ideals they up hold?

They still believe in Collectivist economic system like Socialism, Communist, Marxist ec,

They don't support the free market or are indifference to it.

They vote for some of the most far left candidates, all in exchange for entitlements.
"They"? Where are you getting this data?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
They break the law, and then use their skin color as some kind of defense.
This is getting bizarre. This is what you were driving at by "ethnic political atmosphere" and then "race politics"? That some of them commit crimes after arriving and then play the race card when busted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunlover View Post
The limited goverment of Texas as well as low taxes, low regulations makes that possible, not the illegals.
The point is that illegal immigration cannot be blamed for any identifiable and substantial piece of economic turmoil, in and of itself. If it could, Texas would be struggling worse than most of the other states, limited government and regulations and low taxes or no.
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,521,471 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackscorpion View Post
Wow, he writes all that and you write one sentence lol, well talk about a meeting of the minds here, and no that's not all true considering that a lot of businesses profit off the low cost of immigrant labor.
that does have alot to do with it, but then again border security is not the responsibility of The State of Texas, they are that of the Federal Government(which would explain why the border is as unsecured as it is)

You are aware that the avalibliy of cheap labor hurts us because it suppresses wages and retards mechanization.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:40 AM
 
Location: South Bay
1,404 posts, read 830,844 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
What if a law passed (somehow) making it illegal to criticize the government? Most of us would sign up for a life of crime instantly.

Some crimes are not actually wrong. Crossing an imaginary line after a bunch of white people instead of before, is one of them. Besides, reasoning tells me the current "path to citizenship" must really suck. I don't see risking one's own life sneaking in when it's reasonably simple and easy to get permission first...


I'm coming over to sleep on your couch. After all, the boundaries of your property are an imaginary line some white guy mapped out long before I was here.

I like my eggs scrambled.

Oh, and if you lock me out, you're a hater. Which means I should find a window to sneak through and take those eggs, because I deserve them too.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:54 AM
 
Location: South Bay
1,404 posts, read 830,844 times
Reputation: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post

The point is that illegal immigration cannot be blamed for any identifiable and substantial piece of economic turmoil, in and of itself. If it could, Texas would be struggling worse than most of the other states, limited government and regulations and low taxes or no.
YOU ARE SO WRONG!

Ask any contractor here in Cali if the illegal tradesmen haven't suppressed their wages! My wages went up just 35% in 25 years, while my costs tripled. Ask any long time (legal) gardeners if they haven't been hurt by the teams of illegals with beat up trucks (and no insurance) and a lawn mower. Why do you think black unemployment is so much higher than Hispanics? Are you daff?

Talking heads spin stories that you want to believe, so they must be true. Rather than talking to people who have been hurt by them (illegals), you choose to pronounce that you know better.

Useful idiots tend to parrot lies willingly, and that's why they're useful.
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Old 11-27-2013, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,870,497 times
Reputation: 27519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
The point is that illegal immigration cannot be blamed for any identifiable and substantial piece of economic turmoil, in and of itself. If it could, Texas would be struggling worse than most of the other states, limited government and regulations and low taxes or no.
LOL at this.

Texas has three of the 10 poorest counties in the US.
Guess where they are located ?
Guess what the demographics of those three are ?

Texas has their fair share of low rankings in various measurements.
The MSM doesn't talk much of the growing number of colonias sprouting up along the Texas border.

The strain is seen in the schools and hospitals and county clinics.
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