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Old 04-15-2013, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Springville, AL
154 posts, read 175,559 times
Reputation: 33

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
But there are no flaws in our immigration laws. So nothing is being "reformed". It is just that there are more immigrants wanting to come here than we can accomodate in jobs and resources thus why we have an illegal immigration problem. Amnestying millions of illegal immigrants negates our sane quota policies while million of Americans remain unemployed. Why don't you get that?

It is all American's problem because it is impacting all of us negatively including you and amnesty will impact us all even more negatively in the future.
If you think that existing immigration law doesn't have flaws so poor enforcement and security are two problems that caused massive illegal immigrants to enter our country. Like I said above - that's unfortunate.

There isn't much for me to do it because of gridlocked political system and many Americans have different opinion on immigration.

Why were you point at me as impact more negatively?
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:19 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackf150 View Post
If you think that existing immigration law doesn't have flaws so poor enforcement and security are two problems that caused massive illegal immigrants to enter our country. Like I said above - that's unfortunate.

There isn't much for me to do it because of gridlocked political system and many Americans have different opinion on immigration.

Why were you point at me as impact more negatively?
You are talking about two separate things here. Our immigration laws themselves and the enforcement of them. The laws themself do not have flaws nor are they broken. It is simply the enforcement of them that is. That still doesn't justify giving them amnest when there are other solutions that are in the best interests of the American people. Or don't we count?

All Americans including you have higher taxes due to illegal immigration. The added crime, healthcare that they don't pay for, education, welfare for their anchor babies, etc. The list goes on and on.

I am really sad to see you so complacent about this issue just as long as you don't think it impacts you when it does impact all of us negatively. What about all those millions of Americans put out of work by illegals? Where is you compassion for them?
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:37 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackf150 View Post
Some employers complained that they can't find someone who will to take their job so they went after illegal immigrants. I think those one is part of problem, as same goes with your comment about situation with employers. I know it is illegal for employers to hire illegal immigrants under existing immigration law but they went to broke the law for many reasons like you said about greedy employers.



I'm not ok with anyone who convicted of felony ID theft to be forgiven and they deserves to deported.



Unfortunately, we will have consequences that is not favor to Americans - especially amnesty and path to citizenship due to poor enforcement and security. You can blame on politicians (anger at them) for not fix the situation in many years ago and it looks too late now.

I have no problem with self deportation - make harder (almost impossible) for them to find a job and unable to enroll at college without documentation - I already addressed in my #20. The deportation is included in existing immigration law and if immigrants disagree so need to be resolved via immigration court.

I support amnesty for immigrants who come to US illegally as child and currently in school or hardworking - like I said in #20, I couldn't find an effective method to grant the amnesty to them without fraud and perjury.
Please read what I am saying more carefully before you reply. These employers complaining they can't find an American worker and therefore seek out illegal immigrants is just a bogus lie. What they mean is that they can't find an American to work for cut-rate wages and they aren't williing to pay fair market value for their workers.

Again, what I said is are you ok with a blanket amnesty for those who have been using fake or stolen documents but just have never been caught at it? That isn't the same as already having been convicted of it prior to the amnesty.

Why is it too late for our government/politicians to do the right thing? Implement e-verify across the board including for those already employed. Remove the benefits incentives. Change birthright citizenship. Many if not most will self-deport and finish the double layered fence that was promised long ago but not funded.

Giving children (many of whom are adults now) here illegally and brought here by their parents is rewarding their parents for doing so. The whole family needs to go back to their homeland together. If amnesty is implemented we will just find ourselves in this same situation 20 years from now. When does it end? 1986 was to be the last amnesty and here we go again.

I am just getting mixed signals from you on this issue and not one viable reason why we should give any of them amnesty especially since it will impact our own citizens more negatively than it does now. Perhaps we should just drop this discussion between us as I have nothing left to say to you and yet you still favor an amnesty.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Springville, AL
154 posts, read 175,559 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You are talking about two separate things here. Our immigration laws themselves and the enforcement of them. The laws themself do not have flaws nor are they broken. It is simply the enforcement of them that is. That still doesn't justify giving them amnest when there are other solutions that are in the best interests of the American people. Or don't we count?

All Americans including you have higher taxes due to illegal immigration. The added crime, healthcare that they don't pay for, education, welfare for their anchor babies, etc. The list goes on and on.

I am really sad to see you so complacent about this issue just as long as you don't think it impacts you when it does impact all of us negatively. What about all those millions of Americans put out of work by illegals? Where is you compassion for them?
I believe that amnesty will affect me negatively like many of Americans - it is part of consequence and I have lost the hope in immigration debate.

Based on my philosophy, I only support to limited groups, that means all of 12 millions illegal immigrants will not grant the amnesty, but I can't change everything, including all of politicians, so I only vote for someone in area that where I live - one house of rep, two senators and the president.

I'm more focus on other issues and immigration isn't part of my priority.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:41 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackf150 View Post
I believe that amnesty will affect me negatively like many of Americans - it is part of consequence and I have lost the hope in immigration debate.

Based on my philosophy, I only support to limited groups, that means all of 12 millions illegal immigrants will not grant the amnesty, but I can't change everything, including all of politicians, so I only vote for someone in area that where I live - one house of rep, two senators and the president.

I'm more focus on other issues and immigration isn't part of my priority.
It certainly should be since it will affect the fate of this nation and its citizens.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:49 AM
 
Location: AL
2,477 posts, read 2,201,708 times
Reputation: 1007
So blackf150,we have 15 to 20 million unemployed people and god only knows how many on welfare and food stamps...what do we do with them?
Do we add another 15 million or more to the "trying to get a job" list? How many of the illegals will go straight onto the "govt. dole"? Funny most illegal immigrant supports say "they do just that Americans will not because the wages are so low......lol ummmm if they become citizens are they going to do those jobs for so called "low wages"? NO...So what happens we get more people who will be unemployed.
How about we help AMERICANS 1st then outsiders...only makes sense and again our laws are find if we DAMN enforce them!

Your way will never work..ever!
A country that can't control it's borders will always fall.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Springville, AL
154 posts, read 175,559 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Please read what I am saying more carefully before you reply. These employers complaining they can't find an American worker and therefore seek out illegal immigrants is just a bogus lie. What they mean is that they can't find an American to work for cut-rate wages and they aren't williing to pay fair market value for their workers.

Again, what I said is are you ok with a blanket amnesty for those who have been using fake or stolen documents but just have never been caught at it? That isn't the same as already having been convicted of it prior to the amnesty.

Why is it too late for our government/politicians to do the right thing? Implement e-verify across the board including for those already employed. Remove the benefits incentives. Change birthright citizenship. Many if not most will self-deport and finish the double layered fence that was promised long ago but not funded.

Giving children (many of whom are adults now) here illegally and brought here by their parents is rewarding their parents for doing so. The whole family needs to go back to their homeland together. If amnesty is implemented we will just find ourselves in this same situation 20 years from now. When does it end? 1986 was to be the last amnesty and here we go again.

I am just getting mixed signals from you on this issue and not one viable reason why we should give any of them amnesty especially since it will impact our own citizens more negatively than it does now. Perhaps we should just drop this discussion between us as I have nothing left to say to you and yet you still favor an amnesty.
If you think first employment issue is bogus lie so I don't have much to say because some people will disagree with you (not on my side because I only learned from).

I'm not ok with illegal immigrants who use ID theft, whichever is convicted or not - anyone who did that - deportable.

You can see debate between me and Liquid Reigns on E-Verify. The E-Verify is most effective tool for employers to verify and I believe it should be mandatory for all employers. The birthright citizenship will require a constitution change - pass the federal constitutional amendment is extremely difficult and closer to impossible.

Yes, let drop the discussion between me and you about amnesty. I don't think we will agree on most part due to different philosophies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
It certainly should be since it will affect the fate of this nation and its citizens.
I'm not going vote for Republican Party or conservative politicians that against my wish on most things.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Springville, AL
154 posts, read 175,559 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrymac View Post
So blackf150,we have 15 to 20 million unemployed people and god only knows how many on welfare and food stamps...what do we do with them?
Do we add another 15 million or more to the "trying to get a job" list? How many of the illegals will go straight onto the "govt. dole"? Funny most illegal immigrant supports say "they do just that Americans will not because the wages are so low......lol ummmm if they become citizens are they going to do those jobs for so called "low wages"? NO...So what happens we get more people who will be unemployed.
How about we help AMERICANS 1st then outsiders...only makes sense and again our laws are find if we DAMN enforce them!

Your way will never work..ever!
A country that can't control it's borders will always fall.
Ugh, that's okay and you have different philosophy so not interested in further discussion.

My way isn't work? Your way will not work. The immigration law, whatever existing or reform will not 100% work.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:55 PM
 
Location: AL
2,477 posts, read 2,201,708 times
Reputation: 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackf150 View Post
Ugh, that's okay and you have different philosophy so not interested in further discussion.

My way isn't work? Your way will not work. The immigration law, whatever existing or reform will not 100% work.

Different philosophy??
No see I give you numbers that you have no asnwer too. Facts are facts you can't stuff 10lbs of crap into a 5 lb bag. Simple.
We have to many Americans who are unemployed so no matter how you slice and dice it....add 15 mil (actual number is way higher I bet) MORE people to the employment list and what???

You way CAN'T work.

People claim it's sooooo difficult to get these illegals out...absolutely not....it's all a political game.
They make the problem seem sooooo un-fixable that Americans will take any solution...nonsense.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:05 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8350
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackf150 View Post
If you think first employment issue is bogus lie so I don't have much to say because some people will disagree with you (not on my side because I only learned from).

I'm not ok with illegal immigrants who use ID theft, whichever is convicted or not - anyone who did that - deportable.

You can see debate between me and Liquid Reigns on E-Verify. The E-Verify is most effective tool for employers to verify and I believe it should be mandatory for all employers. The birthright citizenship will require a constitution change - pass the federal constitutional amendment is extremely difficult and closer to impossible.

Yes, let drop the discussion between me and you about amnesty. I don't think we will agree on most part due to different philosophies.



I'm not going vote for Republican Party or conservative politicians that against my wish on most things.
Just one thing. What in the world does voting or not voting for the GOP have to do with being opposed to illegal immigration or desiring amnesty? It is an American issue not a party one. The fact that the GOP is more of an advocate for enforcement and is anti-amnesty should have nothing to do with your personal views on amnesty.
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