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Old 04-16-2013, 04:53 PM
 
Location: CHicago, United States
6,936 posts, read 7,027,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
What La Raza wants is UNLIMITED immigration from the hispanic nations. They want absolutely no restrictions, no limitations for any hispanic wanting to come here for the good easy life.
Advocacy groups ... special interest included ... want what they want. You might also include the Roman Catholic Church to the list of 'open border' advocates, if I recall its position accurately. We live in a democracy where people are encouraged to petition their government for changes they believe are in the best interest of the country. It's up to the Executive, the Legislative and the Judicial branches to manage the legislative/application/enforcement process. I don't fear people who clearly state what they want. It's the people who hide and do their dirty deeds in the dark of night or smoke filled rooms who I'm more concerned about.
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:54 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,958,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
I think the term "amnesty" is tossed about a bit too freely. If anything, it will be "conditional" and many of the illegal aliens will not qualify for the path to citizenship or long-term residency in the USA ... if early reports contained in the "outline" of the legislation are accurate. Many 'hoops' will have to be jumped-through, fines paid, good behavior demonstrated, etc., etc.

One of the biggest challenge, as I see it ... is how do we forstall a future avalanche of illegal aliens from south of the border who may think they would eventually outlast the government will if they arrived here. 'Securing the border' is a proposal more easily talked about than becoming a reality.

And, too, I'm concerned about whatever number of millions of now illegal aliens, soon to be given permissioin to remain in the USA, one day having the right/opportunity to bring additional family members into the USA. Let's say there are 8 million illegals who qualify to stay here and do and half bring 2 or 3 "family" members into the USA. That would be a potential influx of an additional 24 million on top of the 8 million - 32 million persons from essentially one country who would have to assimilate. Such an influx in a relatively short time period would probably substantially alter the culture of the USA. I think such a possibility deserves broader and more serious discussion amongst U.S. citizens and their elected representatives ... before a law which may allow it is approved.
Yes, I would suspect that every illegal here has at LEAST 2 or 3 family members he or she would like to bring here. Many would have significantly more than that. An illegal I know plans to bring his two daughters that he hasn't seen in years, plus their boyfriends, his widowed mother and 2 brothers and 6 sisters. One of the sisters could be doubled sponsored because she has not only her brother but two of her sons here who have 10 siblings still in Mexico and 3 of them already have kids of their own. All the other siblings have children also.

The social safety nets of the USA, all the free health care, free meals at free public schools have a whole lot of appeal to people who live on the edge and have to work hard to make it back in their own country.

There are simply far too few jobs being created in the USA go absorb all the millions more who want to come and of course "family reunification" is a serious desire of many millions of illegals who want their loved ones here and not have to send remittances back to them all the time.
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:57 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,958,315 times
Reputation: 22179
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
Advocacy groups ... special interest included ... want what they want. You might also include the Roman Catholic Church to the list of 'open border' advocates, if I recall its position accurately. We live in a democracy where people are encouraged to petition their government for changes they believe are in the best interest of the country. It's up to the Executive, the Legislative and the Judicial branches to manage the legislative/application/enforcement process. I don't fear people who clearly state what they want. It's the people who hide and do their dirty deeds in the dark of night or smoke filled rooms who I'm more concerned about.
However -- none of this is in the best interest of this country or the American people. It's strictly to benefit people of foreign nations who are here illegally for whatever reason and of course to benefit those who want unlimited numbers of cheap workers. Definitely not for the benefit of American taxpayers who will be expected to pick up all the health care, education, housing, food stamps and other tabs.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:19 PM
 
Location: CHicago, United States
6,936 posts, read 7,027,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
However -- none of this is in the best interest of this country or the American people. It's strictly to benefit people of foreign nations who are here illegally for whatever reason and of course to benefit those who want unlimited numbers of cheap workers. Definitely not for the benefit of American taxpayers who will be expected to pick up all the health care, education, housing, food stamps and other tabs.
I'll let the "American people" voice their opinions directly and through their elected representatives ... as the hearings/debate process unfolds. I try not to pre-judge how people will go one way or another. Yes, very many "people of foreign nations" who ae here illegally will benefit if the legislation is approved by the Congress ... if they comply with a long list of requirements. If I'm recalling correctly, from what I've been reading today ... the process, start to finish for someone wanting citizenship, is about 15 years in length. During that time the "illegals" will have a status which allows them to work, pay taxes in their names and otherwise contributing to American society. Wages are likely to rise in some industries, because lawbreaking employers will no longer be able to threaten the illegals with exposure to the government or use their illegal status as a reason to pay them substandard wages. Legal workers will have the opportunity to qualify for and pay for/receive employer sponsored benefits such as health insurance. Rent payments contribute to property taxes which support schools and sales taxes support state and local programs. Let's see what the proposals look like after the legislative process takes hold and there will be time enough to critize or lobby against a vote in favor before that takes place.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 70,278,223 times
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Open the borders and end all 83+ means tested social welfare programs.
Just end them all.

You cannot have open borders with the poor flowing in and signing up for services.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:20 PM
 
156 posts, read 112,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Open the borders and end all 83+ means tested social welfare programs.
Just end them all.

You cannot have open borders with the poor flowing in and signing up for services.
The economist Milton Friedman said that open borders and the welfare state cannot coexist. Seems like common sense to me.

I have a real bad feeling about this. First off, with the sheer number involved, how will all of these requirements be monitored. I'm thinking our immigration system is already somewhat overwhelmed. What happens when millions of people apply for legalization? Logistically, who is going to do all the tracking and follow up required. How much fraud will take place? Increasing H1-b visas, too? Now there aren't Americans willing to do these jobs, too. I just have a real bad feeling.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:24 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,396,550 times
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One thing to remmber is that they never started the closure of the border in 80's law until just before they hard from voters when the same amnsty was tried under B. Then they never have actaully done that much. Now they think people are falligfor that line agin?Fool me once as the saying goes. Typical polticans lies.No need for a new law to secure the borders its in the existing 80's reform .
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:25 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,385,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
What La Raza wants is UNLIMITED immigration from the hispanic nations. They want absolutely no restrictions, no limitations for any hispanic wanting to come here for the good easy life.
Uh; SOME Hispanic nations IMHO. Argentina and Spain don't count because the people there ain't "brown".
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:27 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,385,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majesticat View Post
The economist Milton Friedman said that open borders and the welfare state cannot coexist. Seems like common sense to me.

I have a real bad feeling about this. First off, with the sheer number involved, how will all of these requirements be monitored. I'm thinking our immigration system is already somewhat overwhelmed. What happens when millions of people apply for legalization? Logistically, who is going to do all the tracking and follow up required. How much fraud will take place? Increasing H1-b visas, too? Now there aren't Americans willing to do these jobs, too. I just have a real bad feeling.
I've heard that said. Hell; even Ireland did away with birthright along with France and many other European countries in the last few years. Probably all countries in Europe DO have a "welfare state" setup in 2013.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:29 PM
 
3,869 posts, read 3,182,294 times
Reputation: 2489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spock View Post
The Gang of Eight have presented their new Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill and already the media reports that the special interest groups are saying it is too strict and anti immigrant and anti business.

They CLAIM there are not enough slots for family reunification

They CLAIM there is not enough H1-V Visas for foreign STEM Workers

They CLAIM that the undocumented workers can not afford to pay the $500 fee to get temporary legal status

They CLAIM that the current "undocumented workers" should not have to apply and get a full background check and pay taxes before getting temporary legal status

Business CLAIM there are not enough special VISA's for construction workers

The Restaurant and hospitality industry CLAIMS that the E-Verify Requirement (to verify the right to work) would make it too hard to find workers

What do you think will happen to the bill after the business communities lobby has their say?

Businesses gear up for fight as immigration details leak - Anna Palmer - POLITICO.com
Great !!!

Let them ALL argue and fight over this crap legislation and watch them KILL it and nothing at all will get done except angering more Americans against this BS.


Is it any suprise that these ingrates want EVERYTHING ???

Better yet let's see more protests, demands and maybe a few hunger strikes when these LOSERS shoot themselves in the foot.

As for Rubio his political career is over, he can run off and join a REAL circus like Barnum and Bailey for his next gig.
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