U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-06-2013, 10:44 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,776,833 times
Reputation: 4446

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicket View Post
Agree 100% with this. You wouldn't even need a border patrol or fence if you were willing to fine employers who hire them out of existence! We'd save trillions putting the burden where it properly belongs. Of course, good luck convincing any Republican to agree to that.
I would submit that there are more republicans who are against illegal immigration than democrats, and that includes fining and/or putting the employer out of business for hiring illegal workers.

fiscal conservatives particularly understand the no win policy of bringing in more workers without more real jobs available, and small businesses suffer when people have less disposable income.

for the democratic party, it is pretty obvious that they just want more voters and they don't care about the cost. It's like "shop 'til you drop" economics.

Look at the big unions-they are endorsing the illegal immigration bill:

Church World Service, the AFL-CIO and other groups are urging senators not to reduce family reunification visas.

that means bringing in more "unskilled families" as opposed to highly skilled workers. (interpret that to mean those future liberal democratic voters). I don't know where they think they are going to get their dues money when everybody is underemployed per salary or hours.

you actually would need a border fence if you really were waging a "war on terror", but maybe we aren't. It wouldn't be just to keep the extra "workers" out, but to keep the "terrorists" out as well. Evidently, that isn't really much of a problem-so you wonder why we have to pay to send young men and women to go to other countries to fight and/or die.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-07-2013, 05:07 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,690 posts, read 8,168,245 times
Reputation: 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
Quote:
Let's try it again: How does saving for retirement beyond that level benefit the country?
the original answer is simple-you don't become a burden to others.
No. You're not going to get away with such a deceptive evasion. The question was, very clearly: "Let's try it again: How does saving for retirement beyond that level benefit the country?"

Just let me know what typeface or font color you want me to type it in, in order to get you to answer the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
who are you to determine how much money someone is allowed to "earn"?
This has nothing to do with me. It has to do with society deciding the parameters of its taxation and retirement programs. Stop trying to dodge and weave. Please answer the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
I don't want to live in a country that has a mentality like that
This has nothing to do with you either. Stop trying to dodge and weave. Please answer the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
the Chinese have heavily invested in solar energy, and it hasn't worked for them either.
So you're saying that means that solar energy is never going to work. What kind of logic is that? We'd still be in clay huts if people thought like you did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
I don't see you commenting on natural gas stations and development
How long do you want my postings to be? Get a grip. Stop trying to dodge and weave. Please answer the question I asked and stop with the nonsense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicket View Post
Agree 100% with this. You wouldn't even need a border patrol or fence if you were willing to fine employers who hire them out of existence! We'd save trillions putting the burden where it properly belongs. Of course, good luck convincing any Republican to agree to that.
+1

Suddenly controlling immigration becomes a horrible thing, when the means of effecting it affects the profits of businesses that make profit by exploiting undocumented workers. How conveeeeeenient!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2013, 06:32 AM
 
31,566 posts, read 14,591,651 times
Reputation: 8411
The problem is convicting an employer of "knowingly" hiring illegal workers. They use some pretty authentic looking fake documents. Many times it is the HR dept. that hires them either knowingly or unknowingly. That is why we need e-verify as a mandate in every workplace.

How does getting rid of the Border Patrol and knocking down fences prevent terrorists and other criminals from entering our country? They certainly aren't looking for work. We will always need manpower and physical barriers to protect our borders.

It is both parties that we are fighting on e-verify and border security. It isn't just a Republican thing. However, it isn't the GOP that is proposing an amnesty for millions which will just encourage more illegal immigration.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2013, 02:03 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Surely saving enough to keep yourself off public assistance when you're old is in the country's interest, but how does saving for retirement beyond that level benefit the country more than pouring that extra amount into the economy?
Only take what you need, leave the beyond for the rest of us.

That "beyond" is usually left to the children, so it does go back into the economy. That inheritance is even taxed by the State (in most cases) and the Feds.

So how does it not benefit the country or how is it not poured back into the economy?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2013, 02:06 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomexico View Post
Don't be silly or disengenuous in your remarks. There is no shortage of jobs which American workers would take if given the chance. Illegal immigrants are working in the USA, millions upon millions of them. They're not sitting around doing nothing. Harshly punnish the enablers ... the employers who are breaking the law by hiring illegal aliens ... and we'll find out just how many Americans want to do the work the illegals are doing. Dry-up the source of income and security for the illegals and they'll mostly return home. That's the quickest "fix" for a huge portion of the illegal alien problem.
What was silly or disingenuous in Oldglorys comment? The fact is that low skilled workers unemployment has increased due to illegals, that wages have decreased due to illegals. High school kids and college kids have had an increase in unemployment since illegal immigrants have taken to those jobs vs working the fields. The one being disingenuous looks to be you. Your outright intellectual dishonesty proves it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2013, 03:25 PM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,690 posts, read 8,168,245 times
Reputation: 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Only take what you need
Precisely: The economy should be structured so that workers can afford what they need. "An edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
That "beyond" is usually left to the children, so it does go back into the economy.
So you're saying that leaving a bigger inheritance for rich people's children, someday long in the future, is more important than the working poor being able to feed themselves when they get old. Okay, I guess you've made your moral priorities clear.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2013, 04:15 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Precisely: The economy should be structured so that workers can afford what they need. "An edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring."
Don't take my comment out of its context.

Are you sure some aren't just lazy? Some are exploiting the process, etc. You're broad brushing doesn't conform to reality very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
So you're saying that leaving a bigger inheritance for rich people's children, someday long in the future, is more important than the working poor being able to feed themselves when they get old. Okay, I guess you've made your moral priorities clear.
Sorry, I don't believe in Socialism. If I make money it is mine, not yours, if I leave it to my kids, who are you to think you are entitled to it? Is it my responsibility to feed and clothe those that fail on their own? The few that truly need it have our govt to rely on. I'm not responsible for someone else's ignorance and greed.

Last edited by Liquid Reigns; 05-07-2013 at 04:37 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2013, 05:05 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,776,833 times
Reputation: 4446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Don't take my comment out of its context.

Are you sure some aren't just lazy? Some are exploiting the process, etc. You're broad brushing doesn't conform to reality very well.


Sorry, I don't believe in Socialism. If I make money it is mine, not yours, if I leave it to my kids, who are you to think you are entitled to it? Is it my responsibility to feed and clothe those that fail on their own? The few that truly need it have our govt to rely on. I'm not responsible for someone else's ignorance and greed.
I absolutely agree with you that if you earn your money, it is yours to do with what you want.

I am amazed that people who want to TAKE from other people are pretending that they have the moral high road.

although I have to admit that we have all gone completely off topic here.


I do think we can agree that the main focus should be job creation, because it is very sad that kids leaving school often can't find a job right away and hit the ground running.

if we don't turn it around, the american dream as we have known it will be lost for them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2013, 01:40 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,690 posts, read 8,168,245 times
Reputation: 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Don't take my comment out of its context.
You mean like people have been dancing around the question I asked, twisting themselves into knots to try to avoid its moral implications because they realize that their priorities are dishonorable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Are you sure some aren't just lazy?
Are you sure some aren't as hard-working as anyone? You don't like those that are lazy - good - me neither - go ahead and figure out a way to fix the laziness. Don't use it or your failure to come up with a reasonable way of addressing that side issue as a rationalization for the practice of greed with all the rest of the less fortunate as your victims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Sorry, I don't believe in Socialism.
Good - me neither. But thanks for making it clear that you have no intention of discussing the matter "in its context".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
If I make money it is mine, not yours
If you make money, you do so by capitalizing on the commercial economy that our society furnishes for your use. You are thereby obligated to pay the rent for your use of that part of the economy you utilize. Stop trying to put your luxury and comfort over the reasonable assessment of taxes that serve as that rent for your use of the economy. This is the true entitlement mentality in America: People who think they have a right to use the opportunities to make profit that we as a society offer to them without paying commensurate with what society's economy gives them in that transaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
I'm not responsible for someone else's ignorance and greed.
Each person who puts their own comfort and luxury over the basic needs of others is responsible for their own ignorance and greed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
I am amazed that people who want to TAKE from other people are pretending that they have the moral high road.
Stop trying to rationalize greed with pitiful fake-outrages. What I'm explaining to you is basic human decency - morality. I don't care if you go to church that learn it or learn it from folks like me explaining it here on C-D, but stop trying to rationalize greed and avarice with such vacuous dodges. If you don't want to have an obligation to society, then don't use society's economy to aggrandize yourself. Simple as that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2013, 07:43 AM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,713,282 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
You mean like people have been dancing around the question I asked, twisting themselves into knots to try to avoid its moral implications because they realize that their priorities are dishonorable?
Floridasandy didn't dance around the question, pretty much said the same as I did, you failed to accept it or you failed to comprehend it. Placing YOUR morals onto others isn't the smartest thing to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Are you sure some aren't as hard-working as anyone? You don't like those that are lazy - good - me neither - go ahead and figure out a way to fix the laziness. Don't use it or your failure to come up with a reasonable way of addressing that side issue as a rationalization for the practice of greed with all the rest of the less fortunate as your victims.
If you were able to understand my comment then you would realize I accept some as being hard working. Practice of greed? Your an OWS'er.....there's the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Good - me neither. But thanks for making it clear that you have no intention of discussing the matter "in its context".
Sorry, like I said, I don't believe in Socialism so there really is no since in discussing it. If that's your cup of tea....have a it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
If you make money, you do so by capitalizing on the commercial economy that our society furnishes for your use. You are thereby obligated to pay the rent for your use of that part of the economy you utilize. Stop trying to put your luxury and comfort over the reasonable assessment of taxes that serve as that rent for your use of the economy. This is the true entitlement mentality in America: People who think they have a right to use the opportunities to make profit that we as a society offer to them without paying commensurate with what society's economy gives them in that transaction.
Never said I don't pay taxes, I even pointed out that the State (some anyway) and the Feds take taxes out of inheritance. Nothing about entitlement that came out of my comment for you to interpret me as having an entitlement mentality. That belongs to you and your morals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Each person who puts their own comfort and luxury over the basic needs of others is responsible for their own ignorance and greed.
Now it's ignorance and greed. SMFH

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Stop trying to rationalize greed with pitiful fake-outrages. What I'm explaining to you is basic human decency - morality. I don't care if you go to church that learn it or learn it from folks like me explaining it here on C-D, but stop trying to rationalize greed and avarice with such vacuous dodges. If you don't want to have an obligation to society, then don't use society's economy to aggrandize yourself. Simple as that.
NO, what you are doing is attempting to push your perceived morality onto others who simply hold different positions then you. When those positions differ you espouse faux outrage with your use of adjectives and personal beliefs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top